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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#371

Post by pteraspidomorph »

Gareth321 wrote: post #160
rvz wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See. It is frankly pointless. Chrome already has a significant amount of mindshare and will grow even more after this. The users have already chosen Chrome (and its derivatives). Mozilla has done absolutely nothing to stop it as Firefox has become totally irrelevant today. The EU is about to allow the world domination of Chrome and its derivatives to takeover entirely. Just like the many choices of a Linux distro, yo…

As a Chrome user I feel obligated to defend my use as: "I like it the most." As long as Google continues to offer a better experience, I don't mind them dominating the market. *As long as they don't use anticompetitive practises to prevent competition.* IE, backed by the most powerful tech company on the planet (at the time), used to be 95% of the internet. If IE can fall, so can Chrome.

IE was replaced because it was a hole-riddled nonstandard mess, and Google used their position to shove Chrome into everyone's mindshare (something this regulation appears to forbid, incidentally). Chrome isn't nonstandard because Google are very careful to comply with standards - which is easy enough when they have many employees involved with designing them and tend to manipulate those committees in their favor, and even if they fail they can just release whatever they want and use the technology's widespread adoption to justify its eventual standardization. Also, as a modern browser, Chrome is patched frequently, so the security angle is also a nonstarter.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#372

Post by hoffs »

piker wrote: post #219
josephg wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how your walled garden is threatened by giving Melbourne Trams the ability to use the NFC chip in my phone to pay for rides. Or threatened by Amazon having the ability to add an in-app purchase button to their iPhone app which uses my saved Amazon payment options. I’m sure apple will fight this tooth and nail, but it’s my phone. I paid for it. I want to be able to do what I want with my device.

Because it requires the devotion of Apple's resources to supporting non-Apple things. It will necessarily degrade certain experiences away from those that Apple would provide without the regulation.

How? If someone installs different app store and it breaks, they just don't handle the requests regarding 3rd party apps, just like now. What extra resources you're talking about

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#373

Post by runako »

gentleman11 wrote: post #362
runako wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is. All of the participants in an iMessage chat have consented to have their data stored by Apple. We can all do rough evaluations on how well we think Apple can protect our data. The wording in the Act appears to not place constraints on exactly what services must be able to interop with iMessage, and it says Apple can't preference iMessage. So presumably the blue bubbles have to go. This means that when cha…

Most of my extended family is unaware that iCloud backups sends your words to apple, not to mention all the other things. There was no rough evaluation

(This is also about the encryption of the communication channel itself.)

I agree with you in general, but it is possible for this evaluation to be done by a simple read of e.g. the iOS marketing page. The Act proposes a regime where it is not possible for a chat participant to determine who holds the encryption keys for the chat. You may consider that better or worse or neither, but it is a significant change in the security posture for billions of deployed devices.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#374

Post by philliphaydon »

avgDev wrote: post #291
philliphaydon wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple AirPlay is just pure trash, so I have to use chromecast. What's trash about it? Never had any issues with it, ever. > My Apple watch keeps bugging out and notifying me few minutes late and requires restart of both devices. Bugging out and notifying you a few minutes late for what? I get text messages on my watch at exactly the same time as my phone. > The device keeps connecting to open networks while my reme…

AirPlay doesn't connect, disconnects and cannot reconnect. This is far from working. Chromecast is MUCH MUCH more reliable. Just go look on forums. The delayed notifications are also pretty common and addressed on many forums, even on apples. https://discussions.apple.com/thread/7022042 https://www.reddit.com/r/AppleWatch/comments/jj8wpv/slowdela... The lens glare is extremely common on iphone 12/13, and I did NOT ha…

I usually avoid using apple.com discussions as 'evidence'...

> The lens glare is extremely common on iphone 12/13, and I did NOT have glare this bad on my other devices.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/253200214

You can go rent a $5000 DSLR Camera and a $10,000 lens and /still/ get lens glare, and it can be much worse. That's why people sometimes shoot with a polarizing filter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarizing_filter_(photography...

I'm unaware of /any/ phone camera that has a polarizer by default. But essentially, you will get it on ANY lens. This is not something that happens only on iPhone 12/13.

-------------

> AirPlay doesn't connect, disconnects and cannot reconnect.

I haven't seen AirPlay on non-apple devices but between my iPhone and Apple TV it works amazingly.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#375

Post by judge2020 »

hoffs wrote: post #364
judge2020 wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the first two are very important questions. For example, if I make $500 “unhackablePhone”, where it literally doesn’t run web apps and every app is vetted by top-talent security researchers for weeks, and then I sell billions of these devices, do I then have to open up the ecosystem to allow anyone to be able to take a phone, punch in the passcode, and install a third party App Store? This is synonymous with the curr…

Well people who chose to use other app store don't get access to your curated list of apps. They still remain your selling point

> Well people who chose to use other app store don't get access to your curated list of apps

This is how Xbox currently works in that you can’t play any regular games if you enable developer mode to run unsigned code. I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that, if Apple complied by disabling apps downloaded via their own store when a user is using a 3p store, then the EU would laugh and fine then $x millions of dollars per week.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#376

Post by pteraspidomorph »

gentleman11 wrote: post #370
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

Does this ban Microsoft from using their privileged position to sabotage Firefox and to push their spyware browser?

I'm wondering about this, too. In recent updates Windows seems to do a lot to force users into Edge under certain circumstances and use cases (and pester the user to switch to Edge entirely), in ways that at a glance appear to be incompatible with the summary of this regulation.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#377

Post by notanormalnerd »

plandis wrote: post #251

One would think that if there is truly a Europe wide market for such an unlocked device a competitor should be able to challenge Apple and Google dominance. Europe could even subsidize it. But instead, it’s more engineering by bureaucrats. Why is Europe so afraid of competing in the open market?

Because it is not "one market".

There is free movement of good, services, money and people. But it is still 28 similar markets with different cultures, different languages, different bureaucracies and sometimes different currency.

It is 400 million people but comparing the EU to the US is wrong on so many levels.

Also calling the US an "open" market is like saying China is a "free" democracy.

"One would think that if there is truly a US wide market for such an affordable healthcare service a competitor should be able to challenge the current market dominance. The US could even subsidize it."

Also it doesn't matter if the EU could do it themselves. Our market, our rules. If you don't like the rules, don't play.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#378

Post by Vogtinator »

judge2020 wrote: post #359
frostburg wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Users will just elect not to do that if they want to benefit from your curation.

The selling point for this theoretical device is that, even if someone steals your passcode, it can’t be hacked. This enabled evil maid (or customs processors, nation-state agencies, etc) attacks on the most vulnerable users looking to have defense-in-depth. To avoid this it seems you’d either be forced to sell it at an insane markup (to avoid having too many users) or means test people to make sure they don’t purcha…

Or just have a way that prevents those kind of attacks. Like having the trusted bootloader light a LED or show a hash code of the configuration on screen.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#379

Post by gostsamo »

throw10920 wrote: post #333
gostsamo wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing stops you of staying in the garden though. Just don't install anything Apple and you'd be golden.

Now that there's a way out, however, you can be forced out if e.g. you have to install an app that isn't available in the App Store because its developer saw an opportunity to roll their own. Not saying that the trade isn't worth it, just that, well, now that Pandora's box is open, it's coming to get you, even if you don't want it to.

This is situation with many conditionals:

1. Apple won't stay competitive for its major partners in the app store.

2. The app will be really important for you with no alternatives.

3. It will be both important and won't be up to your standards established by Apple.

My suspicion is that if it provides really interesting functionality, it will have enough competition that you will be able to choose from.

The major danger comes from scams targeting uneducated users, however, if Apple really wants to protect them, it will make everything possible to maintain their app store as a viable distribution channel.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#380

Post by nemothekid »

SomeHacker44 wrote: post #354
nemothekid wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. For some reason every Linux user assumes everyone is as smart as they are and anyone who doesn't take the time to learn whatever esoteric config file to manage their DE is a child that can't tell left from right. Somehow the decade of directed scams and proliferation of malware and spyware isn't a problem and it's the developers "right" to be able to turn…

Then... stop using Instagram? Build operating system level controls that function regardless of app source?

Just build my own operating system, ok.
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