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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#311

Post by wyldfire »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

> Install any software

Could we have something like F-droid on iOS? I guess that's Cydia now but could Cydia be installed without requiring jailbreaking?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#312

Post by [deleted] »

microtonal wrote: post #213
turbinerneiter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the…

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. I agree in principle, but I worry that we end up in the situation where if you need to use a particular app, you can only get it from a third-party store that you don't trust. (Something gross like Facebook starting an app store.) Or course, this is mostly a result of Apple being greedy. If they had acted like a good steward of the platform rather than trying to ex…

[deleted]

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#313

Post by rad_gruchalski »

bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

> You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software.

You assume that everyone is as smart as you in figuring out which software is "shady software". Majority of the population have no clue and if the path to complying with this regulation is to drop the stance on security (regardless of existing issues with default security, as implemented today) further, well... good luck. Me and you maybe will not get tricked into installing some "shady app" but I'm looking forward to reading more about how people got hacked via their phone because they have installed "a bank app" from "appstore x" thinking that it was from "appstore y".

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#314

Post by MrStonedOne »

microtonal wrote: post #213
turbinerneiter wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. This however isn't a reason for the rest of the world to accept this. And since the power in the market is highly concentrated and all of it is moving more and more in this direction, regulation enforces these alternative options now. All this does is regulate the power the provider of a product has over their customer. This does not ruin the walled garden for the…

That's fine, just stay on the default settings then. I agree in principle, but I worry that we end up in the situation where if you need to use a particular app, you can only get it from a third-party store that you don't trust. (Something gross like Facebook starting an app store.) Or course, this is mostly a result of Apple being greedy. If they had acted like a good steward of the platform rather than trying to ex…

No post body was provided.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#315

Post by bun_at_work »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #273
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The apparent desire for paternalism unnerves me. I find the EU imposing these conditions, under threat of force, on Apple that sells a product that people are free to buy or not buy, much more paternalistic than anything Apple does.

That is the role of governments. Europeans made the EU for this and similar purposes.

So you're not concerned with paternalism itself, you just don't like Apple, right?

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#316

Post by [deleted] »

bloppe wrote: post #305
nemothekid wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. For some reason every Linux user assumes everyone is as smart as they are and anyone who doesn't take the time to learn whatever esoteric config file to manage their DE is a child that can't tell left from right. Somehow the decade of directed scams and proliferation of malware and spyware isn't a problem and it's the developers "right" to be able to turn…

To your first point: I find it telling that your main concern with reducing Apple's monopoly power is that it would elevate Facebook's monopoly power. How about we design regulations that mitigate against monopoly power in all its forms? Then there would be viable alternatives to Facebook and all of the sudden their business model based on hostile tracking becomes completely unsustainable because there's meaningful c…

[deleted]

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#317

Post by webmobdev »

piker wrote: post #219
josephg wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see how your walled garden is threatened by giving Melbourne Trams the ability to use the NFC chip in my phone to pay for rides. Or threatened by Amazon having the ability to add an in-app purchase button to their iPhone app which uses my saved Amazon payment options. I’m sure apple will fight this tooth and nail, but it’s my phone. I paid for it. I want to be able to do what I want with my device.

Because it requires the devotion of Apple's resources to supporting non-Apple things. It will necessarily degrade certain experiences away from those that Apple would provide without the regulation.

I kinda get your point that Apple will have to devote some more resources, but it will only be slightly more: All the API are already there and being used by Apple apps privately and they just have to make it open to everyone. That's not really a huge overhead for someone of Apple's size - they'll just need to publish / update documentation and increase their developer support teams and that doesn't cost 10's of millions of dollars (which is again peanuts for Apple).

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#318

Post by pdimitar »

amelius wrote: post #239
Patrol8394 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, countless times I had to fix friends/family android tablets and phones where all of the sudden apps stopped working and will boot crash . It is always some crap like apps messing settings and permissions or play not being updated etc… I converted most of family to iPhone/iPad problem solved. I am a tech person but when it comes to phones I want the damn thing just to work and simple to use.

That family doesn't know how to keep proper phone hygiene shouldn't mean they get to force their locked down stuff on the rest of us.

Unfortunately that's exactly what it means because most common folk will never put an effort into learning the said proper phone hygiene. :(

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#319

Post by makeitdouble »

tgv wrote: post #114
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

> User any browser and browser engine and choose to make it default Hello, Alphabet world domination. They finally get the chance to get rid of that pesky Safari. Next stop: obligatory sign-in for using a service.

If that’s really how it rolls out, doesn’t it also mean that Safari wasn’t viable on itself and nobody wanted to use it in the first place ?

Apple is no underdog anymore, if their browser couldn‘t compete on its own merit I won’t be crying a river over it.

Firefox, while mired with its own problems, is another story; but I don’t see Mozilla losing from this decision.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#320

Post by sfe22 »

Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

While I am in the camp of apple allowing side-loading, i am not a fan of monopolistic regulations like this. It opens all kind of questions, like

1. What devices have to comply? 2. Who decides what device has to comply? Should playstation open their system too. What about a niche bank transaction signing device that internally uses an android capable hardware. Is this illegal now? 3. What about a car infotainment system that can theoretically run linux. 4. What if a European startup wants to compete with the iphone? Now they have so many regulations instead of focusing on a great device for their niche.

This looks like it will kill competition and harm European innovation, while major players will find their ways around it.

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