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EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

consilium.europa.eu

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Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#131

Post by igorkraw »

shadowgovt wrote: post #101
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

Possibly. The other possibility is it will make it impossible to buy an iPhone in Europe. It certainly puts a huge incentive on Apple to figure out technical solutions to problems like "How do we get other browser engines on this thing without compromising a hundred OS assumptions, battery performance, or user security," but it's also possible Apple decides that's a no-go and it'll cost more than 25% of annual revenu…

Last I checked the EU was still the largest single market block in the world. Maybe that changed since then, but I don't think Apple will simply cede that to a competitor - especially since it would go heavily against their "we care about users" narrative.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#133

Post by dane-pgp »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #105
bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

The apparent desire for paternalism unnerves me. Any time people are free to choose who they associate with, they run the risk of coming across bad actors who would scam them or worse. In most domains of life, we have special protections for the senile elderly and children but everybody else is given freedom and subsequently expected to develop and exercise a sense of good judgement, because freedom is more important…

I absolutely agree with you, but here's a hypothesis worth considering: What if we're building a society that is so complicated that it just isn't feasible for individuals to make informed decisions about important matters any more?

Societies have long accepted that things like medical treatments have to be prescribed by an expert, and some societies have even decided that healthy people can be forced to have medical treatments even against their will (i.e. vaccines).

My hope is that we are just in a temporary phase, where society has learnt how to transmit information freely but not how to reliably transmit trust. If the reputations of software developers and medical practitioners could be established without corporate or government monopolies, then society might get past this local minimum and into a more stable state.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#135

Post by [deleted] »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #126
bloppe wrote: post #81

It blows my mind how many people have bought into Apple's position on this. No, Apple restricting your freedom does not afford you greater security. You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. If you're not confident in your ability to tell shady from legit, just stick to the App Store. Don't demand that Apple treat the rest of us like children just because that's how you would like to be treated.

>You, as an adult, can choose not to install shady software. For whatever reason, my dad cannot choose to not install shady software. Keeping him in iOS land is the only thing that has worked at keeping his devices clean.

[deleted]

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#136

Post by DCKing »

yoavm wrote: post #100
Gareth321 wrote: post #2

This is easily one of the most expansive Acts regarding computing devices passed in my lifetime. The summary is in the link. As an iPhone user, this will enable me to: * Install any software * Install any App Store and choose to make it default * Use third party payment providers and choose to make them default * Use any voice assistant and choose to make it default * User any browser and browser engine and choose to…

Interestingly enough, an iPhone that complies with these demands is actually the first iPhone I'd ever consider paying for. I wonder if this might actually increase adoption.

Agreed. I switched from an iPhone to a Pixel because the iPhone experience is claustrophobic (admittedly I switched from Android to iPhone before that for the much better and lengthy software Apple gives). If this means the iPhone is getting things similar to F-Droid and NewPipe I'd be happy to switch back.

The new iPads have an M1 chip with virtualization capabilities, but you wouldn't know it with the stuff Apple allows on it. Imagine how much better iPads would be if Apple couldn't block Linux VMs just because it doesn't suit them.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#137

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

ethbr0 wrote: post #42
dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder wether they will comply at all. Of course they will try not to. They will do everything to prolong the appeal process and so on - it's unthinkable they would allow any other app store on their devices, that's the very core of their identity - to be as closed and unified as possible. I don't believe the EU has enough power to fight Apple. I'll believe it when I see the first iPhone with an USB-C charger.

The other side of the coin is "Does Apple have enough brand goodwill to spend it on X years of 'Apple fights EU to keep monopoly' news articles?" Kind of hard to claim you're all unicorns and rainbows, when you're actively involved in a court case to defend anti-user practices...

I think you underestimate them. Off the top of my head:

1. EU bureaucrats are threatening one of the most successful business models ever.

2. Jealous EU tries to punish successful American tech companies as they can't compete with them in the market.

3. The EU attempts to lower the value of tech stock, threatening pensions of millions of Americans.

4. Apple will need to fire thousands if the malicious plan of EU bureaucrats succeeds.

Etc. etc.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#138

Post by MichaelCollins »

Pulcinella wrote: post #108

How does this interact with non-Google manufactured android phones? Can Samsung lock things down where Google can’t?

Samsung specifically is well over the €75b threshold, so I would think this law applies to them as well.

Re: EU Digital Markets Act, aimed at Google, Apple, Amazon, approved

#139

Post by MichaelCollins »

dane-pgp wrote: post #133
MichaelCollins wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The apparent desire for paternalism unnerves me. Any time people are free to choose who they associate with, they run the risk of coming across bad actors who would scam them or worse. In most domains of life, we have special protections for the senile elderly and children but everybody else is given freedom and subsequently expected to develop and exercise a sense of good judgement, because freedom is more important…

I absolutely agree with you, but here's a hypothesis worth considering: What if we're building a society that is so complicated that it just isn't feasible for individuals to make informed decisions about important matters any more? Societies have long accepted that things like medical treatments have to be prescribed by an expert, and some societies have even decided that healthy people can be forced to have medical…

> What if we're building a society that is so complicated that it just isn't feasible for individuals to make informed decisions about important matters any more?

Then we should apply the regulator brakes immediately, as hard as possible. If the threat new technology poses to society is so great as that, then we should regulate those technologies, possibly to the point of strangulation.

Ancient Roman urban legend: An inventor came to the Emperor to show off a new material, unbreakable glass. He showed the Emperor a glass chalice and threw it to the floor. Instead of shattering it merely bent, and the inventor bent it back into shape with a hammer. The emperor was very impressed, then ordered for the inventor to be killed. Unshatterable glass was very nice, but it wasn't worth the social and economic disruption it might cause.

I am not that Roman emperor. What I support is the regulation of business practices, not technology itself. But if you (and Ted Kaczynski, for he has argued the same) are right and the threat to society comes from the technology, then we can regulate the technology as well.

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