Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

“No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

bmj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 625 posts

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#301

Post by ornornor »

mellavora wrote: post #273
ornornor wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do you of course. You can grow your own mushrooms at home fairly easily and then you have more control over quality/contamination etc.

Ok, so you have some control over quality. I'll also be generous and assume you have good estimate of dosages and/or some way to maintain consistency of dosages (anyone else reading this, the standard advice is to take less than you think you want and wait 45 min or so, then take more if needed to reach planned cruising altitude. This works if you have enough prior experience to calibrate by, otherwise is very diffic…

Yes I kinda assumed that if someone was considering giving this a shot, they’d research the subject very thoroughly before to get a good understanding of the effects, preparation, effects, doses, etc.

The genera consensus seems to be that mushrooms (psilocybin) can’t kill you. You can’t OD on them. There is no known LD50 (that’s “practical” to achieve anyway), they dont cause addiction, and if you take them too often they actually stop having an effect until you take a break and use again.

There are risks if you have other mental health conditions like schizophrenia etc, but (according to my research), the only risk if you’re otherwise healthy is to have a “bad trip” where you’re basically experiencing negative feelings. By reading about the experience, you also learn that if you resist the bad trip it gets worse but if you look at it with curiosity (what is my brain trying to tell me?) then you’ll have an easier time.

About assessing te severity of your depression, there is a standard test (of which I forget the name) that is also used in the studies submitted to the FDA for approval of antidepressants that ask questions, you then add the points up, and anything above a certain number is severe depression. Although this is yet another flaw of the studies, the people running the studies don’t even agree on the score that give you mild vs severe depression.

Again, I have no medical training so this is just a random stranger’s opinion on the internet. To anyone reading: educate yourself about the whole thing, see if you’re willing to try, and make your own decisions.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#302

Post by scns »

pcmoney wrote: post #33
walrus01 wrote: post #19

I have a completely unscientific, subjective theory that some significant portion of depression in the population as a whole is caused by the economic circumstances that some people live in. Things like being trapped in a dead end job to keep healthcare benefits in the USA, living in a never ending treadmill of debt.

We have it way better than almost any period in history and are profoundly unhappy. Also, we always like to think we will be happy “once I have…X” and then we get X and say well actually what I need is Y. Most unhappiness is driven by vanity and desire (a bargain you make with yourself where you chose to be unhappy until you get something) to be better than our peers. Until you can be content with nothing you wont be…

This might help https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Trap-Struggling-Start-Livin...

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#303

Post by imtringued »

wpietri wrote: post #180
willcipriano wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, the state threw a ADD diagnosis on me because I was bored in school, pumped me full of a methamphetamine analog and put me into classes with profoundly disabled people ruining my social life from a early age. I'd stare at the wall in my bedroom for hours due to the drugs, eventually my parents stopped giving them to me when I was at home, but that lead my dad to try them, and eventually get addicte…

As somebody who was diagnosed with ADHD in my youth and who has tried various medications, I've reached the point of suspecting that the disease model is just a poor fit here. Does my brain work differently than other people? Yes. Would this have been a problem for me in any pre-industrial society? (Which, to be clear, is most of human history?) I don't think so. Is it a problem for me when I have a fair bit of contr…

I find the idea that we are born defective to be inherently suspect.

It is quite illogical but very popular because well adapted people can just talk about superior genes and how everyone else has inferior genes and they can never change anything about that except with extensive medical treatment.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#304

Post by cbxyp »

SSRI's are without a doubt the leading cause of divorce and mass shootings in America. The quacks in the medical profession handing them out like candy to people whom it is clearly contraindicated in, without any followup study and usually without any competent analysis of what the drugs are doing to these peoples behavior and brains. Getting my girlfriend off of SSRI's completely changed her life, as she was indicated bi-polar, and yet over 10 mental crisis hospitalizations with specialist psychiatry teams failed to notice the direct contraindication and continued recommending use of SSRIs. The kind of mental breakdowns she was having as a direct result of SSRI use is the type of behavior that in a male could lead to a mass shooting or other particularly crazy behavior. Uncontrollable flights of emotions and repeating panicked behavior.

After seeing her be "treated" by numerous psychiatrists who failed to take note or recommend cessation despite SSRI usage being clearly contraindicated on her pre-existing diagnosis, the last crisis we simply took her to another hospital, they concurred on cessation of SSRIs and all of these problems ceased. Of course, it's not possible to sue the previous doctors or hospital due to the laws that protect the industry.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#305

Post by imtringued »

refurb wrote: post #96
chx wrote: post #57

There's a significant population of science denying cranks and so those who want to raise legit concerns about the quality and alas, often motivation of medical studies are easily grouped with those. But: 1. There's no such thing as good / bad cholesterol. This is complete baloney and Pfizer lost a staggering amount of money when a drug raising good cholesterol got as far as human trials -- and failed them. There is…

There's no such thing as good / bad cholesterol. This is untrue. There is lots of data to suggest elevated LDL is a risk of cardiovascular disease and that high HDL lower risk. Pfizer's drug failed because of safety issues, not because "There's no such thing as good / bad cholesterol".

> There is lots of data to suggest elevated LDL is a risk of cardiovascular disease and that high HDL lower risk.

There is zero data to suggest that once you adjust for oxidized/damaged LDL.

Smokers don't have elevated LDL but they still suffer the effects of inflammation/oxidization that ultimately lead to cardiovascular disease. If you want to guarantee cardiovascular disease just eat straight up oxidized cholesterol in the form of trans fats.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#306

Post by mjfl »

philliphaydon wrote: post #228
mjfl wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right because what serotonergic synapses do is they tickle the other neurons to make them happier right?

We know that a group of people who suffer from depression have lower serotonin levels when compared to someone who is considered... not depressed. And we know that SSRI's prohibit or prevent the bodies ability absorb serotonin allowing it to accumulate and be more effective and pull it in line with someone who is not depressed, resulting in the depressed person becoming less or not depressed. So. I'm unsure how my st…

> We know that a group of people who suffer from depression have lower serotonin levels when compared to someone who is considered... not depressed.

I thought the whole point of the article was that there is no solid evidence of a relationship between serotonin levels and depression?

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#307

Post by wisty »

ggm wrote: post #23

My psychologist tells me that in his profession there is a significant gulf emerging between the ones who feel the prescribing is justified, and the ones (like him) with significant concerns: 1. they prescribe both boosters, and inhibitors, to treat the same symptoms. This suggests the aetiology of disease here, is not well defined by a single behaviour because the same symptom (depression, anxiety) is responsive in…

Maybe just giving the system a kick can be a bit effective (especially in conjunction with a patient trying to change).

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#308

Post by refurb »

imtringued wrote: post #305
refurb wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no such thing as good / bad cholesterol. This is untrue. There is lots of data to suggest elevated LDL is a risk of cardiovascular disease and that high HDL lower risk. Pfizer's drug failed because of safety issues, not because "There's no such thing as good / bad cholesterol".

> There is lots of data to suggest elevated LDL is a risk of cardiovascular disease and that high HDL lower risk. There is zero data to suggest that once you adjust for oxidized/damaged LDL. Smokers don't have elevated LDL but they still suffer the effects of inflammation/oxidization that ultimately lead to cardiovascular disease. If you want to guarantee cardiovascular disease just eat straight up oxidized cholester…

"eat straight up oxidized cholesterol in the form of trans fats"

Trans fats aren't oxidized.

Like I said, I love reading HN health comments.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#309

Post by chalst »

cbxyp wrote: post #304

SSRI's are without a doubt the leading cause of divorce and mass shootings in America. The quacks in the medical profession handing them out like candy to people whom it is clearly contraindicated in, without any followup study and usually without any competent analysis of what the drugs are doing to these peoples behavior and brains. Getting my girlfriend off of SSRI's completely changed her life, as she was indicat…

> without a doubt

Not a mark of wisdom to use these words about such topics.

I agree that SSRIs and bipolar are a tricky mix, but they work for some patients.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#310

Post by imtringued »

refurb wrote: post #184
chx wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is lots of data to suggest elevated LDL is a risk of cardiovascular disease Elevated LDL is a symptom of inflammation. It is not a cause and lowering it doesn't help. The research mixed up cause vs correlation.

I love reading medical advice on HN. Genetic errors which cause high LDL levels result in significant cardiovascular disease. It's a very strong cause and effect. I won't argue that inflammation doesn't play some role (it seems to play a role in many diseases), but I wouldn't dismiss current medical opinion on LDL. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familial_hypercholesterolemia Familial hypercholesterolemia (FH) is a gen…

Why aren't you adjusting for LDL subfractions? Seriously, yes having too much LDL can be a sign of having harmful subfractions but that doesn't mean high LDL actually is harmful or low LDL is healthy.
Post reply on HN