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“No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

bmj.com

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Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#151

Post by drc500free »

chx wrote: post #57

There's a significant population of science denying cranks and so those who want to raise legit concerns about the quality and alas, often motivation of medical studies are easily grouped with those. But: 1. There's no such thing as good / bad cholesterol. This is complete baloney and Pfizer lost a staggering amount of money when a drug raising good cholesterol got as far as human trials -- and failed them. There is…

> Last year there was a study pretty much confirming [ADHD] is overdiagnosed in children.

That paper is very clear that they did not study misdiagnosis. They are a bit jargony with the use of "overdiagnosed."

"Overdiagnosed" does not mean incorrectly diagnosed, it means that there are subgroups who get a net harm from being treated.

A more understandable term for what they measure is "overtreated." The solution is likely better protocols for mild cases, not to state that ADHD is not a thing.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#152

Post by mf2hd »

whimsicalism wrote: post #93
eyelidlessness wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The diagnosis and treatment of ADHD in adults but most especially in children is extremely suspect. Go on… (I’m adult diagnosed, for disclosure, but please do go on and tell me how suspect my diagnosis was, how I shouldn’t have been diagnosed as a child, how my medication is harmful. Go on and tell me about my life which you know better than I do.)

e: [deleted]

Focus.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#155

Post by SubiculumCode »

It is depressing reading the comments here from people who know nothing of this field, yet feel like they are qualified to spout tons of unsubstantiated nonsense on a forum where we are encouraged to only engage in the conversation when we actually know something.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#156

Post by mjfl »

philliphaydon wrote: post #82
paulpauper wrote: post #48

It's sorta fascinating how anti depressants work yet no one really know how or why they work.

We know how and why SSRIs work in regards to serotonin. We don’t understand why some people produce little or absorb serotonin too quickly requiring SSRIs drugs to manage it.

right because what serotonergic synapses do is they tickle the other neurons to make them happier right?

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#157

Post by eurasiantiger »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #49
zeckalpha wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hence the first S and the I in SSRI. A filter in certain areas increases other areas. Doesn't change overall values.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting, but SSRIs definitely do change a number of measurable metrics of the serotonin system by prolonging the duration of serotonin in the extrasynaptic space. This is well studied. The first "S" is for selective, meaning they have minimal affinities beyond the serotonin transporter.

Where do you get that from? SSRIs act on SERT and SERT handles reuptake from the synaptic cleft, not from extracellular space which is ”vacuumed” by MAOA/B and COMT.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#158

Post by s-lambert »

_yoqn wrote: post #65
sn0w_crash wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know plenty of depressed rich people. I understand your theory but spend a week in the Hampton’s and you’ll see some real sad souls.

Yeah they are probably into some extremely toxic, unnatural things that cause them to secretly hate themselves. I wonder how much shady sexual shenanigans happens in the households of the top 1%? Plenty of drugs, gossip, gluttony, lust, etc. Happiness comes from the overcoming of not unknowable obstacles toward a known goal. It's the journey, not the destination. And the trick is to set another goal once you attained…

>Happiness comes from the overcoming of not unknowable obstacles toward a known goal. It's the journey, not the destination. And the trick is to set another goal once you attained the one you're on.

I find this kind of bizarre because you can look around and see how it's obviously not true. Dogs are happy as clams to just socialize with their owners / other dogs and just live. People hustling to always get to the next goal don't seem particularly happier than people who don't have a goal and just have a healthy social life.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#159

Post by tptacek »

ggm wrote: post #60
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> None the less, I think the substantive point stands: the field is not in unity about the applicability of these drugs, and their use. Which field? You said he was a psychologist. Your post was about psychiatry and neuroscience topics. I don't disagree that psychologists have a lot of opinions, but it's not really their domain. I think it's a mistake to think that a psychologist is better educated on psychiatry topi…

I think the gap between GPs, Psychologists and Psychiatrists lies at the heart of this. GPs can (and do) prescribe psychoactive drugs. What they do subsequently is subject to the constraints of the health economics which apply: In the UK (I am told) the delay to be seen by anyone other than your GP can be measured in YEARS because of the backlog in patents presenting. Many of these patients are young people. The GP h…

This is for the most part a thread about SSRIs. Xanax is a benzodiazapine. There are no controversies on this thread, or really any ordinary place, about the dangers of benzodiazapines; they're scary drugs.

Re: “No convincing evidence” that depression is caused by low serotonin levels

#160

Post by jazzyjackson »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #18

SSRIs raise extra-synaptic serotonin levels within the first hour of taking them. However, their efficacy against depression takes weeks or even months to manifest. We've known this for decades, and as a result the "chemical imbalance" theory of depression hasn't been a real contender in depression research for a long, long time. The key thing to understand is that serotonin levels don't have to be low for SSRIs to i…

> the pop-culture misunderstandings

You mean the TV commercials that played about 6 times per hour in the 00s explaining that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance ?

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