I live close and know people who livelihoods depends on that forest. Believe it or not, it's not the farmers or loggers fault. Their livelihoods depends on that forest. Farmers depend on the rain cycle. Loggers depend on the forest staying healthy, so new trees grow so they can keep their business going. Illegal logging does happen but it isn't their fault exclusively either. The root cause is illegal occupation and…
that seems like a situation where one should fight fire with fire.
Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
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Re: Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
Note this is probably a false dilemma. According to Brazilian federal police, the recent deforestation surge is caused by illegal logging, not agriculture or cattle raising. Source in Portuguese: https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/nacional/pf-grilagem-e-madeira-... Brazil had no trouble to grow in 90s and 2000s while reducing Amazon deforestation.
That's a very important post. > Brazil had no trouble to grow in 90s and 2000s while reducing Amazon deforestation. Thanks for putting it into words in a way I couldn't.
I'm not sure its accurate though. The marginal rate of forest coverage loss seems to have dropped substantially since 2008.
Re: Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's a very important post. > Brazil had no trouble to grow in 90s and 2000s while reducing Amazon deforestation. Thanks for putting it into words in a way I couldn't.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation_of_the_Amazon_ra... I'm not sure its accurate though. The marginal rate of forest coverage loss seems to have dropped substantially since 2008.
By the way the president from the first of those years is running in the next election. There's still hope.
Re: Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
#204I live close and know people who livelihoods depends on that forest. Believe it or not, it's not the farmers or loggers fault. Their livelihoods depends on that forest. Farmers depend on the rain cycle. Loggers depend on the forest staying healthy, so new trees grow so they can keep their business going. Illegal logging does happen but it isn't their fault exclusively either. The root cause is illegal occupation and…
Illegal farmers and loggers have no interest in preserving the forest. They can just completely destroy some area, then move around to another one and start it all over again. Even farmers don't want to spend too much time in the same place if they can help it, the soil in the Amazon isn't that good for farming after a few harvests.
Re: Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
#205It's not unheard of that in Africa many groups/tribes form together to fight back against poachers. Is there anything like this happening in the Amazon rainforest? And if no, then why not? Do people think a politician with his fancy suit is going to step his foot into the swamp to try and meet halfway? These assholes are literally destroying the world and the human race is none the wiser.... I sometimes wonder what w…
There is. People just get killed and everything is swept under the rug.
Re: Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
#206Bolsonaro's election received heavy support from the international (and national) finance sector. They projected a higher gain under his government. And most of these people are from developed countries.
People from rich country may not be really aware that the commodities come from somwere. The recent Russian war sure made this more clear. Developing countries are locked in that role.
If a country like Brazil, Russia or China reduces significantly its exports, everyone living costs rise. This is obviously true for high technology goods, but while you can survive with no smartphone, you can't with no food and energy.
I'm talking about this most obvious stuff to make this point: rich countries exports their poverty. USA still has a firm hand on the entire continent, and will not let it go, Brazil included.
As someone from Brazil, I really hope BRICS+ continues to grow. While the G7 can easily suffocate small dissidents, a entire block can not be. Sanctions against Russia stared to make European governments fall, what happens if you sanction half the world population?
I'm reserving judgment in the Russia's war in this post, becase most of these implications don't depends on who is right.
Re: Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What that sounds a lot like to my ears is “white man’s burden”. I.e. we the developed world have a responsibility to control and parent the developing world because they can’t do it themselves. The difference here being that it's not about taking control of the developing world, but saving resources humanity as a whole requires to keep earth habitable for us - this affects everyone, poor or rich. It's just that Bra…
> It's just that Brazil, right now, has a very unfortunate combination of a corrupt government, very valuable resources, and responsibility for the integrity of the forest. That’s not an accident. Not misfortune. That’s a result of western colonialism. I’m no expert in brazil, but its history includes colonial governments, CIA backed coups, and IMF influence. It doesn’t have a bad gov because whoops we elected a bad…
Re: Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
that seems like a situation where one should fight fire with fire.
Just to be clear, you're advocating for setting fire to people's homes?
Re: Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
#209Re: Brazilian Amazon lost 18 trees per second in 2021
#210First step is to get rid of their climate change-denying madman President.
What are you suggesting here? That western countries should assassinate an elected world leader? Or that western countries should influence the next democratic elections? If you don't see an issue here, then imagine if you were talking about the USA. Should other countries "get rid of" the US president if they don't like his policies?