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Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

github.com

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Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#51

Post by foonathan »

epage wrote: post #15
vitno wrote: post #9

It's not immediately obvious from this page and GitHub org, but this is a Google led project. It's led by Chandler and the c++ toolchain team. I have no idea of it's endgoals or how open to non-Google ideas it will be.

> this is a Google led project This doesn't give me much confidence if its Corporate governance rather than open governance.

Based on what they've told me the long term governance plan is to establish an independent foundation, with development controlled by three equal lead developers from different companies.

It may have been started by mostly Googlers but they want other companies and individuals to participate

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#52

Post by gpderetta »

mepian wrote: post #19

It's a shame a stable ABI is declared as one of the non-goals, C++ is painful enough to integrate with other languages.

Apparently this is a google or google-adjacent project. Google was one of the most vocal committee members in favour of breaking ABI stability, so it is not surprising.

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#53

Post by dleslie »

marssaxman wrote: post #45
dleslie wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet it is the name used in C++ code for a variable length container of contiguously stored data.

This is intended to be a different language, is it not?

Not wholly different; it appears to be intended to interop with, and progressively replace C++ in existing projects.

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#54

Post by rvz »

epage wrote: post #15
vitno wrote: post #9

It's not immediately obvious from this page and GitHub org, but this is a Google led project. It's led by Chandler and the c++ toolchain team. I have no idea of it's endgoals or how open to non-Google ideas it will be.

> this is a Google led project This doesn't give me much confidence if its Corporate governance rather than open governance.

So you had no problem with Golang being led by Google for more than 10 years and now this new language is somehow a problem because that one is also led by Google?

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#55

Post by visheshdembla »

secondcoming wrote: post #43

Interesting. It will obviously take off _because Google_ but since they're heavily influcened by the Rust syntax, why not just learn Rust instead. They'll need to get it into Compiler Explorer so people can really look at codegen rather than porting small programs.

https://carbon.godbolt.org/

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#56

Post by donkarma »

zozbot234 wrote: post #31
cogman10 wrote: post #21

If you are like me and wondering "What makes carbon different from Rust or Zig? 1. The ability to interoperate with a wide variety of code, such as classes/structs and templates, not just free functions. 2. A willingness to expose the idioms of C++ into Carbon code, and the other way around, when necessary to maximize performance of the interoperability layer. 3. The use of wrappers and generic programming, including…

Isn't this one of the most prominent features in D? Sounds like they're trying for something very much like D, while starting closer to current C++.

D is closer to this than this rust rip-off

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#58

Post by vitno »

foonathan wrote: post #51
epage wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is a Google led project This doesn't give me much confidence if its Corporate governance rather than open governance.

Based on what they've told me the long term governance plan is to establish an independent foundation, with development controlled by three equal lead developers from different companies. It may have been started by mostly Googlers but they want other companies and individuals to participate

Official governance vs the effective governance is the real crux of this issue. Immediately starting from the lead developers separated by companies already puts a deep corporate interest spin on the project. Choosing to do a lot of the initial work in secret and then disclosing is also a pretty big data point.

I think this is going to be an uphill battle for them and I hope they win it but I'll be skeptical unless if I start seeing radical (for google) transparency basically immediately.

Also worth pointing out that the language is not immediately worthless even if they fail or only partially succeed in this endeavor!!

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#59

Post by [deleted] »

mda wrote: post #5
dleslie wrote: post #3

I was interested and intrigued, but then: // A dynamically sized array, like `std::vector`. var circles: Array(Circle) = ({.r = 1.0}, {.r = 2.0}); Yegads, they've put effort into ensuring API and ABI compatibility with C++, but they've gone and decided to change the meaning of nouns for basic types?! Why, just why would introducing that obvious footgun be appealing? It raises the concern that the language is full of…

Why is it an obvious footgun?

[deleted]

Re: Carbon Language: An experimental successor to C++

#60

Post by epage »

rvz wrote: post #54
epage wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this is a Google led project This doesn't give me much confidence if its Corporate governance rather than open governance.

So you had no problem with Golang being led by Google for more than 10 years and now this new language is somehow a problem because that one is also led by Google?

This is assuming a lot about me when in fact

- I don't use golang - As an outsider, the governance has seemed unhealthy like with how dependency management was dropped out of no where

However, it has been relatively successful. Dart's success has been more mixed. I am also looking more broadly at projects like Bazel.

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