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Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

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Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is what OP wants. He hates regular jobs. He wants to work on his inspiring projects, but doesn't know well how to monetize/market them.

My solution to that problem was to switch fields. Now I have a rather comfortable job and plenty of free time. I get to work on whatever I want and only if I feel like it. Some days I wonder what it would have been like if I had chosen to program professionally. I try to maintain my skills just in case.

That's easier said than done. I'm a data scientist/ML engineer rather than a software dev, but I don't think I have any skills that would give me remotely similar pay in any other field. At least not without going back to school. I could teach math or CS as an adjunct I guess? Build and sell computers? Enact crypto scams? Maybe I lack imagination ...

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#262
Kinda understand in the old days developers were engineers, we solved it, by code and by machines / computers. You had a good idea of the problem, had experience, knew the best ways to to visualize a gui around it. Then companies got addicted to scrum, micro management, only minimal changes allowed, nothing radical to change, and old code got over engineered, to complex for what a user realy wants, driven by marketing selling points that never got sold anyway. I've seen this so many times, while all side projects where you were in that old full control went great. Then you get blamed "you dont fit the company..." Companies rarely take a look in the mirror, has the main project become a nightmare sinking ship instead of you (only a few believe in it).

The problem is I think scrum to many people involved, to many people want to say, (not knowing the engine), good software usually has good dictators leading it positively without needs for scrum (or minimal).

Good coder (i noticed) usually are intelligent people to have nice conversations with, will write elegant code, and love to share their ideas, as if it were readable books you would like to talk about.

The poor coders are extreme focused on "their" code knowing it all and there is no argue about it, they feel talking about code is a waste of time, see sorry about their faults and laugh about others people misstakes. Above all they protect their position in the company, (it might be better if they changed jobs) but on every company we have those people, not open to ideas, new aprouches new solutions.. you just dont fit in they say...

If the WHOLE scrum process takes a coder more than hour a day, its gone wrong IMO (and yes most often this goes wrong because their so "experienced", while you've seen way more companies failing just like them)

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#263

10 Years in, I'm depleted. I no longer trust either business people nor other developers. I no longer trust corporations and governments. I'm actually quite disgusted with what the internet has become, how people interact with it, how children interact with and so on. We need a clean slate and keep it clean - else we might soon become the most regulated industry, which is really something we want to avoid.

open a socket, bind to port 79 instead of 80, and go for it :)

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will do, thank you. It took me many years to finaly come to the deep realization that sitting down by yourself and brutaly examining my own problems that the mind generates is the only way forward. The amount of resistance I felt to this was enourmous. I escaped by trying to browse internet, read books etc... for way too many years. Listening to 20hours+ of Krishnamurti's talk was what finally made me realize that th…

Have a pointer to any of these talks? I always found him to be impossible to grok, saying really ambiguous things to the point of being devoid of practical meaning. But what you cite that you got out of him is a mindset that I got out of years of therapy and reading self-help books - that is, those methods utterly failed and so now if it doesn't come from my own mind (with a few exceptions), I can't take the advice.

Yes he is "annoying" most of the time aka wasting your time. Basicaly it's 95% fluff since he talks about world peace etc... a lot.

But you find 5% of practical stuff in his talks. I probably listened to 20+hours of his talks. I put it on my phone and go for a walk in the city and fast forward it.

So as far as pointers to his talk...not really...but at some point you realize that:

1) It actuall works

2) That repeated exposure to ideas is required until the human comes to the realization that only self-examination can work.

Once you understand that you can somewhat easily "suffer" through Kirshnamurti, fast forward it and ignore 90% but then listen and re-listen to certain parts.

No magic sauce I'm afraid...

You might also wish to read Kapil Gupta's Siddha Performance website.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#265
post #118
post #52

> I can't bare the devs that go out of their way to work weekends without being asked, I can't bare the endless meetings, constant micromanagement, bringing the stress home to my family. Have you considered just changing jobs? Not all places work weekend/have tons of meetings/micromanage. Maybe take time to assess what you like and dislike about your job and try to find a less stressful environment that fits your exp…

> As my girlfriend puts it "at the end of the day it's just a bunch of computers, no-one is dying". +1

This is what I tell myself every time I get a page in the middle of the night.

Unfortunately I still have to get out of bed :(

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#266

> Yet I can't bare it. I can't bare the devs that go out of their way to work weekends without being asked Wait... You love programming but you can't stand those that code during the week-ends?

There’s a difference between programming for fun on personal projects etc in your own time vs. doing work without compensation. Working overtime for free is not only allowing your employer to steal from you, but sets unreasonable expectations on all of your colleagues, too.

overheard at an airport bar

manager1> my team is so strong they go without sleep to make the deadlines

manager2> hmm

manager1> my team is so dedicated they even go without meals, working straight through lunch and dinner!

manager2> hmm

manager1> can you top that?

manager2> my team are such professionals that when they're tired they sleep and when they're hungry they eat.

manager1> satori

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Get a job at smaller to medium sized non-tech company. Every company, in any industry, has computers. They need you. I personally had the worst experience at such jobs. Small/medium sized non-tech companies don't value technology and don't understand its importance. If it works, you're invisible and just a cost center, if it doesn't you're to blame. For work/life balance I've found big tech corps the best (not FAAN…

The world is different now. It's 2022 and the value of technology is far more clear to the average person.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#268
post #25

When I was in university, I had a coworker at the book store who casually mentioned that he used Linux on his home computer. I asked if he was in computer science or engineering. Neither. He loved computers, loved programming, but when he took the classes and imagined the jobs, he found it revolting. So he switched majors, and software became his hobby instead. He seemed very happy with the decision.

Do you remember what major he switched to?

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#269
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to get a job building internal tools that my company needs and uses but I haven't had any luck actually finding those kinds of jobs, so I always wind up building products. Any advice on how to find those kinds of positions?

Connect with a recruiter (or five) and tell them that's what you want. They exist to act as a filter, and if you work with several from multiple companies/geographies in addition to doing your own searching, you'll eventually find what you're looking for.

In my experience, recruiters basically keep your name and skillset on record and don't take into account any of your other wants/needs.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#270
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Connect with a recruiter (or five) and tell them that's what you want. They exist to act as a filter, and if you work with several from multiple companies/geographies in addition to doing your own searching, you'll eventually find what you're looking for.

In my experience, recruiters basically keep your name and skillset on record and don't take into account any of your other wants/needs.

I'm honestly surprised how many don't even seem to take your skillset into consideration.

You don't have to know much about programming languages to know that if none of the words on my resume match the ones in the job listing, it's probably not a good match.

Maybe I need to be more clear that while I'm willing to learn new tech for a job, I probably don't want jobs where I have to learn an entire new stack just to get started.

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