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Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

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Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#221

Post by wnolens »

Yes, welcome to mid-career. You realize that you aren't paid to program, you're paid to solve business problems. Those are best solved ASAP, where code is tool (which you see as a scalpel, they see as a blunt object), you are a laborer (not an artisan), and ultimately answer to bean counters.

I survive by trying to get the highest pay possible, giving just over the minimum so as not to appear lazy, and playing musical (job) chairs until I find a company with good/bad tradeoffs that don't irk me.

If it didn't pay "retire-early" money, I would be doing something else.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#223

Post by teakettle42 »

xnorswap wrote: post #18

There's a difference between Programming and Software Development and I think it's important to recognise that difference when looking at your career. Programming is one small aspect of software development. It's an absolutely essential part, and it's the part you probably enjoy the most. But despite being an essential core part, it's also a part which only occupies maybe 20% of your time. Some software developers de…

> If you start taking pride in the state updates, the endless meetings and approach that part of your work with the same pride you would approach coding then you may find some of the stress disappears as instead of always fighting the system you flourish within it.

Taking pride in useless make-work turns you into another useless make-worker, making life suck more for anyone who is still actually trying to get anything done.

It’s good advice if you want to suck the soul out of everything you do and become a cog that works 20% of the time, producing less than 20% of what you’re capable of, but getting along really well with management drones holding endless meetings.

Responsibility for actually shipping something will shift to the next guy who hasn’t yet embraced the futility of trying to get anything done.

He’ll be the one blamed for not shipping and for not being a source of joy in the endless meetings.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#224

Post by jcranberry »

There are parts of the tech industry culture I dislike, but its definitely not endless meetings, micromanagement, and coworkers who work extra hours. Especially with regards to meetings and micromanagement, which I see the tech industry as having a very low amount of either compared to other industries.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#225

Post by mvgcf »

magicalhippo wrote: post #61
badpun wrote: post #2

I think most people here can. That's why, when people have enough money to retire, they DO retire, and not continue working. Work for most people is trading time and physical and mental health for money. In our profession, we got it better than most, but the underlying principle is still the same. Also, there are definitely better and worse companies. I'm currently in the best job of my life (well paying, fully remot…

> The catch is that such companies don't have to hire that often I'm in a similar position (not remote though) and yeah... my boss told me during my first year that the guy who was hired before me said he'd only stay 2-3 years, and that was 6 years ago. It's almost 10 years later and we're both here, along with the rest. We're a small company though, so like you say, we've just hired a few programmers since I started…

Glad to hear there actually are people staying and more importantly: Places to stay at.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#226

Post by Sheeny96 »

nvarsj wrote: post #171
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the insane hazing ritual of the tech interview process That's it, exactly. I was a hiring manager for 25 years, and never gave a single coding test, during that time. I never made any technical errors. The only bad hires were folks that couldn't adapt to the work environment. Some of them were quite technically proficient. Some of my most gratifying hires, were ones that came in, with little tech proficiency or exp…

I did nope out of this process last time I was looking, when I moved out of the US and my kids were young - because I just didn't have the time for it. I took a huge pay cut, but I accepted family > career. Since then I managed to almost triple my income through accomplishments and networking, but I still make less than a FAANG senior engineer. Then I had a close friend, who I encouraged to get into software, land an…

Anecdotally, you have far more experience than me therefore probably already know this, but the skills you're describing sound suited to a digital transformation (buzzword in many old hat businesses transitioning to being 'tech companies')/technical management role as opposed to an out and out engineer at this point. Depends what you want as your day to day.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#227

Post by TrackerFF »

badpun wrote: post #2

I think most people here can. That's why, when people have enough money to retire, they DO retire, and not continue working. Work for most people is trading time and physical and mental health for money. In our profession, we got it better than most, but the underlying principle is still the same. Also, there are definitely better and worse companies. I'm currently in the best job of my life (well paying, fully remot…

The retirement bit seems more like an American-centric thing. I've worked on various projects involving American and European companies, and to be honest the European workers seem much more content with their work-life.

I can only assume that it is because of stronger labor laws, more relaxed work/life balance, etc.

Some of my American (contractor) colleagues would work like dogs for 6 days a week, often from early in the morning to late in the night - depending on the status of the project. It was the first time I observed actual burnout in people, and how visibly it changes people and their personalities.

In any case - most of them, especially those over 40, would often discuss their big plans: Only work 5-10 more years, then retire, and live life.

If 50-60 hour weeks, all year round, is any good indicator of American SWE life - I can understand why devs. are daydreaming about retirement.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#228

Post by cudgy »

oifjsidjf wrote: post #179
toddmorey wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but if OP is building stuff on the side, this type of employment may give the time & headspace to do it, along with less stress.

I dissagree: he hates his job, that is what is producing the stress in the first place. Otherwise he'd be happy keeping a job and having the weekends for his own projects. But this is obviously not the case.

My impression is that he is comparing himself to others and worrying about other developers working weekends, possibly making him look bad if he does not do the same. The reality is that the “weekend warriors” at the company are doing more of the same type of work while he would be working on other tech of his own interests on weekends if desired, broadening his knowledge of other toolsets and methods, which will prove quite valuable in the long run.

Quit worrying about what other people are doing.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#229

Post by marcodiego »

Happened to me. I'm very pragmatic but I'm more idealistic than pragmatic. I was well payed while on the industry but wasn't happy with what I did. I basically did thing for which I hated the industry and developed products with abuses which I used to fight against.

I left my job and now I work as a teacher. I doesn't pay well, it is much more work, I had to leave the city I was living in but I now feel I'm not doing anything I think is unethical and I have much more autonomy to decide what I do.

Re: Ask HN: I love programming but hate the industry. Can anyone relate?

#230

Post by Clubber »

mritchie712 wrote: post #85

> endless meetings, constant micromanagement there are companies where this part is not true. We have one daily meeting. Engineers have The daily standup is more a way to stay "real people" to each other instead of a picture in slack. We could easily do the standup async, but talking to each other each day is good for keeping solid relationships.

Daily standup are one of the stupidest things the industry has come up with in the last 20 years. It's all part of the scrum BS which is nothing but structured/obsessive micromanagement.

We have 2 weekly meetings back to back. Biz/Dev then Dev/Dev, both combined usually total an hour. When we need to call someone, we call someone.

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