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Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

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191–200 of 232 posts

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#191
I have contemplated this although I'm not yet in a position to face it myself. But I can draw on my own experiences seeing the modern, engineered-experience internet gradually grow up day by day.

The critical thing, I think, is not to hide them from the bad and act like the entire job is done - because then at some point later, you open the door and shove them through it saying "ok, you're ready kid" and they aren't - but to expose them and prepare them in ways of "extracting more from less" - to feel self-sufficient so that they don't get stuck in a bad habit. So blocking can be used as part of the solution, but it has to come with some alternatives. What we're looking at with our information society verges on "basic life skills." The way of the algorithm is to leave you slightly unsatisfied and clicking into the next video, sharing more than you need to, begging for attention. What is the way around it? How does one train themselves to stay safe online in the same way that one learns to tie shoelaces? (I've known adults who gave up on tying their shoelaces. It is a pitiful sight.)

Well, you can visibly take up a hobby of media analysis and philosophical critique. Take the content, identify how it works, and add your critique. If it's entertainment, you can look for technical breakdowns of how it works. If it's politics, find the part of the argument that is a contradiction, because all ideologies have them. And that can be the dinner discussion. Doing that week after week for years will give them an awareness of media that they won't acknowledge as anything special, but will reveal itself abruptly when they start calling out their friends for consuming trash and getting into vicious arguments as a result. And then they can learn to not read their replies. Remember, we're looking towards "what happens after you let them out the door". One path leads them towards being employed as someone's intellectual footsoldier, regurgitating whatever memetic information is out there and living a life that is not entirely their own. Another is to give them exits and ways of being that are genuine to their inclination. Working on yourself and your issues gives them the example to follow, so always look to do "things for myself that my kids can also learn from". Like, my dad had a focus on healthy diet and exercise, my mom did not. Guess which one I followed? My dad, of course. Not immediately in every sense, because I also tried mom's ideas, but I was aware of it and grew towards it. That's what saves a person.

And so...also give them books that are disconnected from the online experience, the "good books" that nobody talks about but everyone recommends, in all subjects. There are a lot of them, and the level of content is so far beyond the average reaction Youtuber. And there are really good Youtubers too, who usually aren't doing clickbait and so aren't the most polished or popular. You can download and archive those, and that will be fine up through the grade school years. But you have to keep up with the subjects that they're interested in, and this tends to shift around really quickly until they're near adult age. And often people just can't hear things unless they like who's saying it, so some valuable advice will inevitably be overlooked. "Youth is wasted on the young" is a basic rule. So you have to not look at it in terms of bringing up their averages. If they grow up knowing "here are some good ways to live" and they still reject all of them, that's not the end of the story, and they may come around in time.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#192
If all the other kids were eating poison, would you want yours to eat it too? Do you really want a corporation, whose express purpose is to turn your child into a shopaholic by the age of 10, to raise your kid? Do you really want your child to have no connection to themselves through "influencer" level indoctrination? Is infinte scroll really worth investing the best years of your child's life in?

I gave my daughter a Nokia flip phone, she soon became part of the family again.

You don't have to buy into the idea that exposing innocent, defenseless people to rapacious corporations is a question of freedom. Its bullshit. Unsubscribe.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#194

>you are likely to understand my concern for privacy and personal integrity, I've given up on the high ideals I used to hold about (online) privacy (and anonymity). There's an argument that they, in some circumstances, are the antithesis of personal and public responsibility. My current plan is that my kids will get tech when they can afford it themselves. I'm also dreading it, as more parents bow to the pressure and…

> I do understand the downsides of this, and also don't want my kids to be social pariahs.

FWIW, they will more likely become pariahs (or suicidal) from a lapse in judgment involving said device.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#195

> I have this preconceived notion that I don't want to violate my children's privacy. If you have a preconceived notion that frames these questions in terms of privacy, then you will have a preconceived solution. Why is this discussion being framed in terms of "privacy"? There is a large and growing advocacy for "children's privacy" that I am quite hostile to. The advocacy largely seems to be focused around allowing…

Children's privacy with respect to freedom to experiment and become their own people would generally mean private interactions with their peers, not corporations or adults.

I disagree with your assessment of that this is what is generally referred to WRT children's privacy -- but I also disagree that privacy and freedom apply to play dates.

My parents largely let me play with whoever I wanted to. But there was at least one occasion I was not allowed to go and play with one family.

Though play time was largely unsupervised, there was still no veil of privacy. If my parents asked me what I was doing with a friend and I fabricated a story that wasn't true, or declined to answer, I don't think I would get to hang out with them much longer, and with good reason.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#196
First thing, I know this is for when they are older, but delay access to tv and computer as much as possible.

When baby are young they look at facial interaction to build their sense of belonging, putting them on tv disrupt their normal developpement. Same things when they are a bit older, they should play with people and physical things.

When they get older we used to watch movie together and now (12yo, 13yo) they play games online but we limit the time.

I removed the phone from my son a few month ago when I discovered that he sneaked it into is room and was watching Tictoc instead of sleeping.

All those games and short video are like drugs to most kids.

On the positive side, he learned a bit of programming, 3D design by himself, we play with 3D printing, etc.

Here most kids don’t play outside anymore, we have almost given up as there is no one outside to play with them. I think the Internet have ruined a normal childhood.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#197
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate the problem space. Think of it like security issues where the attackers/researchers are constantly evolving and generating novel ways to hack a system. Your solution is telling fresh out of school developers to be really careful about use after free bugs and spear phishing. Obviously a good start. But it's not enough in a lot of cases.

The central problem here is trust: either your kid trusts you enough to discuss things with you, or they don't. If that doesn't exist, implementing a technical panopticon is a way to paper over its worst effects, but it's not a solution to the root problem.

> it's not a solution to the root problem.

And will make that root problem worse.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kids are not smart enough yet to understand the threats that face them even when I try to explain. I have Pfsense setup on the house with pfblockerng and several firewall rules and other settings. I gave them Linux computers and GrapheneOS phones with VOIP and burner SIMs. They are pretty happy with them. I also have a Nextcloud, XMPP, email, and other server apps setup for them. People get locked into the first…

Note that this can have the opposite of the intended effect: "Oh, my parents are so crazy, everyone uses this tech, it's _fine_." Not sure if there's any avoiding this.

They understand the reasons and feel ahead of their peers. Their friends want to learn more from me.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#199

>you are likely to understand my concern for privacy and personal integrity, I've given up on the high ideals I used to hold about (online) privacy (and anonymity). There's an argument that they, in some circumstances, are the antithesis of personal and public responsibility. My current plan is that my kids will get tech when they can afford it themselves. I'm also dreading it, as more parents bow to the pressure and…

Can you talk more about giving up smartphones? That's a pretty radical move.

You say "radical". I say "attempting to undo some of the damage of the past few years". Anyway, I've always had an independent streak, and never liked how my of my life was controlled through my phone by big tech. I've tried all of the typical steps - fully-FOSS phone (CyanogenMod), quitting social media, and leaving my phone in a different room at night than my bedroom (which was probably one of the single most helpful steps). The hardest thing to quit was Whatsapp - at least where I live (UK), it has come to dominate social organisation.

I can only recommend this process, even if you don't make it all the way. I also appreciate that where I live, less of life has become dependent on smartphones and apps, and making these choices might have more sideffects on your life if you are somewhere like the US.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this can have the opposite of the intended effect: "Oh, my parents are so crazy, everyone uses this tech, it's _fine_." Not sure if there's any avoiding this.

They understand the reasons and feel ahead of their peers. Their friends want to learn more from me.

Sounds like you've won then!

I'm glad that there's not only hope, but hope to successfully pass that hope on.

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