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Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

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Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#131

Post by Xeoncross »

brightball wrote: post #127

I’m going to go the other direction…it’s your responsibility to violate your childrens online privacy at least up to a certain age. Block, restrict, monitor. Say no pretty much all the time. They’ll be fine. There’s so much stuff out there where they’ll have no idea what’s going on but you’ll recognize it immediately. NextDNS is great for this stuff. Apple Family Manager too. On a phone or iPad just remove safari ent…

Yeah, lots of good points raised in other comments but I agree. For young kids there isn't as much of an upside to freely roaming the internet.

With guidance, children can get all the good stuff while not having to face grooming, bullying, hate spam, or other dangerous traps online.

Once young people need to start giving back, publishing content, selling/purchasing things, networking, etc... then the benefits of the free internet really come into play for them.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#132

Post by intrasight »

nemo1618 wrote: post #113
fdsafdsfdsa wrote: post #106

>you are likely to understand my concern for privacy and personal integrity, I've given up on the high ideals I used to hold about (online) privacy (and anonymity). There's an argument that they, in some circumstances, are the antithesis of personal and public responsibility. My current plan is that my kids will get tech when they can afford it themselves. I'm also dreading it, as more parents bow to the pressure and…

Can you talk more about giving up smartphones? That's a pretty radical move.

Did fine without one for my first 47 years, so I'm not sure how "radical" that really is. I couldn't be without while away from home. But do we really need them at home?

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#133

Post by Misdicorl »

ethbr0 wrote: post #118
Misdicorl wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the opposition is doing everything they can to 1) make that communication remain innocuous long enough to fall into background ignore status 2) escalate in a way that will either avoid communicatong with you or even better seem fine to the child but not to you and so invoke the "my parent isn't fair" response and stop consulting you wholesale

Yes. And why is your teen so desperate for attention that they're willing to get it from a random stranger on the internet? Instead of their friends or someone they know in real life? Jesus, this thread of an exercise of people making more and more convoluted excuses to treat their own children like criminals. Is this the HN that was against warrantless wiretapping, or did I mistakenly fall through into another forum…

You're obviously well convinced of your position; I haven't had to make one yet. I think a pure trust approach is laudable but scary.

A common refrain from parents in these situations is how strong they thought their relationship with their child was and how they never imagined it could happen to them. Thats scary. Weighing a very low probability extreme consequence vs. various questionably impactful interventions with certain downsides is hard (at least in my view).

Not to mention that there are risks the internet exposes you to that aren't sexual abuse related. Desensitization to violence, insane discourse (epithets dropped like candy), etc are also important aspects of a parent's moderation choices. Trust and conversations cannot address this since the desensitization takes place as a consequence of simple repeated exposure. In the extreme case, desensitization translates to usage, and I think thats clear if you listen to any 14 year old kid on an xbox stream.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#134

Post by abirch »

brightball wrote: post #127

I’m going to go the other direction…it’s your responsibility to violate your childrens online privacy at least up to a certain age. Block, restrict, monitor. Say no pretty much all the time. They’ll be fine. There’s so much stuff out there where they’ll have no idea what’s going on but you’ll recognize it immediately. NextDNS is great for this stuff. Apple Family Manager too. On a phone or iPad just remove safari ent…

My wife and I explain how much privacy that they should expect (not much) and stick to that. This entails playing their Roblox games occasionally and reviewing their browser history.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#135

Post by mixmastamyk »

This is akin to dropping off your kids in Times Square NYC with a twenty. I'd rethink it.

The privacy you mention does not exist online. All the "good spots" are run by surveillance capitalism in bed with the government. Kids need privacy from these entities, not privacy from their parents until mid-late teens.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#136

Post by Sophistifunk »

brightball wrote: post #127

I’m going to go the other direction…it’s your responsibility to violate your childrens online privacy at least up to a certain age. Block, restrict, monitor. Say no pretty much all the time. They’ll be fine. There’s so much stuff out there where they’ll have no idea what’s going on but you’ll recognize it immediately. NextDNS is great for this stuff. Apple Family Manager too. On a phone or iPad just remove safari ent…

And don't flip out too much when you catch them learning to avoid the control. That's an important lesson for them to learn, because once they're grown and out of the nest, the people trying to control, monitor, and limit their access to information are not doing it for the victims' benefit.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#137

Post by nemo1618 »

intrasight wrote: post #132
nemo1618 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you talk more about giving up smartphones? That's a pretty radical move.

Did fine without one for my first 47 years, so I'm not sure how "radical" that really is. I couldn't be without while away from home. But do we really need them at home?

Yeah, that was my thought -- maybe just keep a separate smartphone in the car, and never bring it in the house? Seems like the only times you really "need" a smartphone are when you're out somewhere.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#138

Post by rr808 »

ksec wrote: post #43

One thing I noticed that is often missing in these discussions, sometimes it isn't up to the parents to decide at all. Imagine your 8 - 11 years old daughter's social circle, and the school she is at where her classmate were allowed very little Internet at home or school. Then you wouldn't have a problem enforcing whatever internet rules. Now imagine everyone of her classmate were playing Minecraft, and she is the on…

I think this is underrated. One girl in middle school who was my daughter's friend wasn't allowed a phone or internet. By the end of 8th grade she had very few friends and really had nothing in common with anyone else to talk about. This was a during a lot of stay at home covid schooling which probably made the effect more severe.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#139

Post by primax »

ethbr0 wrote: post #118
Misdicorl wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the opposition is doing everything they can to 1) make that communication remain innocuous long enough to fall into background ignore status 2) escalate in a way that will either avoid communicatong with you or even better seem fine to the child but not to you and so invoke the "my parent isn't fair" response and stop consulting you wholesale

Yes. And why is your teen so desperate for attention that they're willing to get it from a random stranger on the internet? Instead of their friends or someone they know in real life? Jesus, this thread of an exercise of people making more and more convoluted excuses to treat their own children like criminals. Is this the HN that was against warrantless wiretapping, or did I mistakenly fall through into another forum…

Uh... Because they're a teenager. Sometimes, that are bottomless pits of craving attention for reasons that aren't logical.

Re: Ask HN: How to deal with children's online habits?

#140

Post by sp332 »

ethbr0 wrote: post #84
Misdicorl wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you underestimate the problem space. Think of it like security issues where the attackers/researchers are constantly evolving and generating novel ways to hack a system. Your solution is telling fresh out of school developers to be really careful about use after free bugs and spear phishing. Obviously a good start. But it's not enough in a lot of cases.

The central problem here is trust: either your kid trusts you enough to discuss things with you, or they don't. If that doesn't exist, implementing a technical panopticon is a way to paper over its worst effects, but it's not a solution to the root problem.

You can't solve everything with a discussion. You can tell kids not to do something all day long, doesn't mean they won't do it.
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