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U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

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Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#161

Post by Sam_Odio »

TexanFeller wrote: post #80

I’ve heard people advise not to call such hotlines because their intervention is not limited to just talking to you. It’s said they often cal the police who stop you by force and often make your life even worse than it was.

This is an special problem for the uninsured that struggle with mental health.

A close friend struggled with bipolar. She was uninsured and making close to minimum wage…calls to suicide prevention hotlines resulted in thousands of dollars in new bills from ER visits and even involuntary psychiatric care.

She was struggling to pay rent. Being discharged in effectively the same condition as before but with new debt she wouldn’t be able to pay off for years…the medical bills for involuntary psychiatric care were their own special sort of crazy.

See https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2020.2...

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#162

Post by morelisp »

marvin wrote: post #142
heartbreak wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I know pro-Russian propaganda when I see it.

Can you provide more details on what you're thinking here?

"Russian-Hating Dream of Brzezinski Clan Nears Fulfillment as Poland Agrees to Host Permanent U.S. Base and Turn Baltic Sea into NATO Lake" seems, uh, self-explanatory.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#163

Post by cmg »

marvin wrote: post #142
heartbreak wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I know pro-Russian propaganda when I see it.

Can you provide more details on what you're thinking here?

I’m not particularly interested in having to defend myself on this forum, on a completely unrelated post. heartbreak will likely respond, and that’s fine, but it’s very interesting that they decided to look into my (public) associations here.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#164

Post by KennyBlanken »

softwaredoug wrote: post #66
Waterluvian wrote: post #21

Policing is in such a horrible state in America that an emergency number that excludes police involvement seems increasingly necessary. I wonder if you can get paramedics through this route or if it just rings and you eventually get a counsellor.

Policing in the US is shit in part because other social services are under developed that the police have to double for everything. Frankly it’s crisis too because doing social services and policing is a shit job that isn’t going to attract the best and brightest. Add to that it’s a job for Iraq and Afghanistan vets probably suffering from their share of PTSD, and you get a pretty volatile combo

The reason social services are underdeveloped is because police spending has swollen to consume massive portions of municipal, state, and federal budgets. This is thanks to decades of conservative politicians beating the drums of "wasteful" welfare spending and "fighting crime by spending more on police."

Forty percent of Uvalde's budget was going to the police - $4.3M for 15,000 residents, or $2900/person. That doesn't include the half a million dollars for their school police force.

New York City has a budget of about $100BN, and $11BN goes to NYPD - $1300 for every single person in the city.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#165

Post by vorpalhex »

adrianmonk wrote: post #126
kelseyfrog wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for pointing that out. Is it that my idea of when to call is too narrow? I am having a hard time understanding the difference between what I listed and official resources[1] which say things like > 911 is to be used for emergencies only. An emergency is any serious medical problem (chest pain, seizure, bleeding), any type of fire (business, car, building), any life-threatening situation (fights, person with…

This won't solve 100% of cases, but when in doubt (and if life or limb aren't at risk), can't you call 311 and let them tell you, if necessary, to hang up and dial 911 instead?

You can and eventually you will be transferred but you will absolutely be met with the: "Sir, next time call 911". I speak from experience.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#166

Post by vorpalhex »

pessimizer wrote: post #149
vorpalhex wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of suicide attempts describe wanting to be talked out of their attempt. They want someone to help stop them. I've been on the receiving end of a call from someone who wanted to be talked down. I think having a universal number to call if you don't have anyone else is valuable. Will it stop all suicides? No. Will it help reduce suicides in people who are considering but not yet decided? Yes.

> Will it help reduce suicides in people who are considering but not yet decided? Yes. Is this a made-up statistic? Do we have any good studies that show that a suicide hotline that could loop in emergency services, possibly get you involuntarily committed, and possibly be something that employers and insurers could find out the for the rest of your life reduces mortality, or is that just the kind "common sense" that…

Yes these studies exist and will come up if you search: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17579545/

If you might kill yourself, involuntary commitment might be the right course of action.

Typically these things can't be communicated to employers or insurers unless you generate a criminal complaint - eg you decide your method of suicide is going to involve victims.

Yes people who attempt suicide probably have shorter lifespans. I'll leave it to you to puzzle that one yet.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#167

Post by KennyBlanken »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #141
autoexec wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also wonder what the impacts of having "Placed calls to the suicide hotline" in your permanent record will be on people's lives if they do choose not to take it. With the state collecting that data, your phone company collecting that data, your cell phone OS collecting that data, random apps collecting that data, and who knows who is on the other end of that call and what they're doing with your data. Will you be t…

Practically speaking, none of these things will happen. This is actually one of the big hurdles to getting some people into therapy/treatment/medication that they need: They imagine a lot of catastrophic scenarios about what could possibly happen if they get the help they need, which creates a gridlock that traps them in their situation. From a pure risk management perspective, the highest risk by far in these scenar…

What "far reaching hypotheticals"?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32122139

I've heard over and over horror stories along those lines. Someone having a mental health crisis calls emergency services for help (and absolute best case scenario they get a very expensive taxi ride to the ER) or goes to the ER themselves. The ER pumps them full of drugs or just locks them in what amounts to a prison, does nothing to treat people or connect them with services but charge tens of thousands of dollars, leaving people in the same spot they were in before but with mountains of medical debt.

Or, someone is honest with their therapist, the therapist prioritizes not getting hit with a malpractice lawsuit so they report their patient to the police, and...see above, except worse, because the patient isn't expecting it nor did they consent to such a sudden and drastic intervention.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#168

Post by vasco »

throwaway988 wrote: post #155

For those who might ever contemplate this, maybe you'd like to hear a bit from me. I've been both depressed life-long and have probably spent more time in such contemplation than virtually anyone else here. (I'm pretty happy now, so no need to worry.) One of the worst things about this is the feeling that you can't talk to anyone about it, as the moment you do, you start having to take care of _them_ emotionally, at…

> What if you're dealing with someone else suicidal? Just listen and keep listening, without making yourself an emotional burden.

Careful with this, it's easy as a partner of someone suffering from this to over time get too impacted by the constant depression talk and walking on egg shells to not say the wrong thing.

My recommendation is to help your friend or partner get professional help, if after a couple of months of listening you're still just listening to same stuff. Otherwise it'll take a toll on you and two depressed people are worse than one.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#169

Post by danans »

tylergetsay wrote: post #158
kelseyfrog wrote: post #37

What constitutes a 988 emergency? I was raised with a sacrosanct view of 911. Do not call unless it is a bona fide emergency. This means something along the lines of a situation outside my expertise that poses a threat to life. Broadly speaking it ranges from medical, physical, security, and probably a host of other things I'm forgetting. However, I don't have the same instilled ideas about 988. What are the sufficie…

I called 911 once because a large piece of furniture was sitting in the middle of the highway; it felt weird

It shouldn't feel weird. You did the right thing. Your call could have easily saved someone's life or limbs. I've made such 911 calls many times.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#170

Post by morelisp »

stop50 wrote: post #78
morelisp wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My last ambulance trip in the US was billed at $12000. With my (good!) insurance I still had to pay $500.

Despite me knowing the american system, it still freaks me out seeing the numbers. the last time i had to pay anything for anything medical was the deductible of 5€ (minimum 5€ maximum 10€ 10% of the price for everything you buy in one go, except generica which are free from deductions)

I've lived in Europe for a decade now and I have a similar reaction when my family still in the US talks about medical expenses or I think back to how I weighed financial vs. medical decisions during those years. It's inhumane, and seemingly impossible to impress on middle-class Americans how unnecessary and pervasive the cruelty is. Living or even thinking within its frame leaves one a broken person.
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