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U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

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Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#121

Post by pessimizer »

softwaredoug wrote: post #66
Waterluvian wrote: post #21

Policing is in such a horrible state in America that an emergency number that excludes police involvement seems increasingly necessary. I wonder if you can get paramedics through this route or if it just rings and you eventually get a counsellor.

Policing in the US is shit in part because other social services are under developed that the police have to double for everything. Frankly it’s crisis too because doing social services and policing is a shit job that isn’t going to attract the best and brightest. Add to that it’s a job for Iraq and Afghanistan vets probably suffering from their share of PTSD, and you get a pretty volatile combo

> policing is a shit job that isn’t going to attract the best and brightest.

It's not that it's a shit job, it's that it's a job that requires you to commit reprehensible acts, so good people can't join in good conscience. If our laws, law enforcement methods and justice system weren't horrifying, cops would be better, no matter how shit the pay or demanding the expectations.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#122

Post by dang »

danachow wrote: post #59
fuckcensorship wrote: post #42

Suicide hotlines, on the surface, seem like a good thing. Having a phone number someone can call 24/7 to talk to someone who is trained in helping someone undergoing a mental health crisis seems like an effective way to reduce suicides and benefit mental health overall. However, I think they have the opposite effect in practice. I suffer from pretty severe depression. It runs in my family and it is something I've str…

Quoted post unavailable.

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

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Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#123

Post by lotsofpulp »

oops wrote: post #114
lotsofpulp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$500 for a specialized vehicle on demand 24/7 with somewhat trained workers who have to deal with undesirable work seems pretty good. Assuming that was under the deductible, so the ambulance provider did not get paid anything else, and $500 was the negotiated pricing for members of your insurance plan.

The $40 in Ontario sounds even better tho right? Just as the billed imaginary $12k figure that only exists to make “$500 seem pretty good” sounds absurd.

I did not write that the ambulance should not be subsidized by the government, merely that the negotiated price between the ambulance business and the insurance company seems reasonable considering the services provided.

I would have made the same statement if the government had paid the ambulance company $500, or if the government’s cost for providing that instance of ambulance service was $500.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#124

Post by dang »

bowsamic wrote: post #87
danachow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

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Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#125

Post by pessimizer »

vorpalhex wrote: post #72
prvit wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://theweek.com/articles/531458/troubling-rise-swat-team... This 2015 article claims 80k deployments per year And I guess it makes little difference whether it’s the SWAT team that shoots you or just regular cops.

Your articles source for that 80k figure is literally a guess by a criminologist who gives the range "50k to 80k" based on literally no data. The only data they are using is PG county MD which has one of the highest murder rates in the country. In 2021 there were ~1,000 police shootings. 85% of shot suspects were armed with a deadly weapon. That's in a nation with a population of 334,000,000 people.

This is either an intentional lie or a typo. There were 1000 police killings, not 1000 police shootings.

edit: and I'm even accidentally being deceptive. There were over 1000 people shot dead by police. There were more people killed by police.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#126

Post by adrianmonk »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #83
vorpalhex wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your view of 911 is incorrect. You should attend a safety briefing from your responders (or if in a smaller region, call their office number). To loosely rephrase: "911 is if you need assistance now. Non-emergency is for the paperwork the next day."

Thank you for pointing that out. Is it that my idea of when to call is too narrow? I am having a hard time understanding the difference between what I listed and official resources[1] which say things like > 911 is to be used for emergencies only. An emergency is any serious medical problem (chest pain, seizure, bleeding), any type of fire (business, car, building), any life-threatening situation (fights, person with…

This won't solve 100% of cases, but when in doubt (and if life or limb aren't at risk), can't you call 311 and let them tell you, if necessary, to hang up and dial 911 instead?

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#127

Post by colechristensen »

WebbWeaver wrote: post #111

Maybe we should rebrand it as a mental health hotline and directory. Most people dont know what resources for this actually exist and what they do. Mental health remediation does not have a good track record everywhere.

Honestly a big part of the problem is resources don’t exist in a timely manner. I’m currently waiting for a neuropsych followup for a minor concussion which had to be scheduled six months out.

I’ve had a friend in the middle of a manic episode unable to get care with their existing provider for weeks.

The state of mental health service availability is ridiculous.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#128

Post by PragmaticPulp »

TexanFeller wrote: post #80

I’ve heard people advise not to call such hotlines because their intervention is not limited to just talking to you. It’s said they often cal the police who stop you by force and often make your life even worse than it was.

> It’s said they often cal the police who stop you by force and often make your life even worse than it was.

I asked a friend who volunteers for one of these hotlines. He says it's actually rare and the guidelines are more about people are in imminent danger to themselves or others (e.g. threatening suicide by a method that would endanger other people in the process, or worse, implying threats of hurting other people or inducing suicide by cop).

Definitely not the common or standard outcome, though.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#129

Post by lotsofpulp »

freeflight wrote: post #107
lotsofpulp wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$500 for a specialized vehicle on demand 24/7 with somewhat trained workers who have to deal with undesirable work seems pretty good. Assuming that was under the deductible, so the ambulance provider did not get paid anything else, and $500 was the negotiated pricing for members of your insurance plan.

Would you also calculate the economics of privatized firefighters like that? Or are you at some point willing to admit that not everything should be a private, purely for profit/shareholder value, venture?

I did not claim anything about what should or should not be subsidized by taxpayers. My comment was simply about the actual cost of providing ambulance services.

The fact that the insurance company can negotiate the bill to $500 indicates what the real price is. The $12k number is just fantasy numbers that healthcare providers throw out to start the negotiation.

Re: U.S. transition to 988 suicide and crisis lifeline begins Saturday

#130

Post by jillesvangurp »

fuckcensorship wrote: post #42

Suicide hotlines, on the surface, seem like a good thing. Having a phone number someone can call 24/7 to talk to someone who is trained in helping someone undergoing a mental health crisis seems like an effective way to reduce suicides and benefit mental health overall. However, I think they have the opposite effect in practice. I suffer from pretty severe depression. It runs in my family and it is something I've str…

Suicide is something that just claims a lot of lives. The tragic thing is that often these people are not beyond help and just get caught up in a desperate moment. So, I can see the value of a phone number that is there. Of course suggesting that as a solution to somebody that is suicidal is not always going to produce the desired outcome. But it's not like that that is going to push them over the edge either. And I imagine there are people that do call and live. The math is probably in favor of that number being there for those who need it.

Of course some people really are determined to end their lives but for many this is just a desperate way to solve a seemingly desperate situation that objectively isn't actually that desperate. People with mental health issues often have trouble doing rational things and sometimes just calming them down gets them to a stage where they are at least open to being helped. That's hard work but it saves lives. Usually that help comes initially in the form of extremely heavy sedatives. That doesn't solve any of the underlying issues but it does get them in a state where they are at least able to be somewhat rational again.

I have some relatives and friends with mental health issues that went through such a thing. I also remember talking to them while they were in the middle of that. It's just horrible to witness somebody going through such a thing and realize that they are scared of what they might do to themselves and that there is literally nothing you can say or do that changes that. I'm glad they are still there and managed to find a way past that and back to leading a happy life. But of course not everybody is lucky enough to hear what they need to hear or get the care they need when they need it most.

A common pattern with people that are difficult to help is that they reject the whole notion that they need it to begin with. Telling such people that they need help is not an easy message and it can easily result in people getting upset and angry. But not telling them is not an option either. A phone number is not a solution to anyone's problems. But somebody will answer that call regardless and it might save a life once in a while. The absolute worst case is that it doesn't, which I'm sure happens as well.

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