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How I went about learning Rust

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Re: How I went about learning Rust

#291

Post by masklinn »

Ygg2 wrote: post #287
masklinn wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd consider something OOP if it has the same expressive power i.e. things expressible in OOP languages are easily expressible in another OOP language as well. That doesn't even make sense on its face. There are things which are trivially expressible in Smalltalk and I'm not sure even possible to wrangle in Java.

That's because Smalltalk OOP isn't the OOP in the sense Java is, some refer to Java Style as Class oriented Programming.

That doesn’t make your original comment any less nonsensical, and still makes no sense: Smalltalk is very much class-based. Are you mixing up Smalltalk and Self?

Re: How I went about learning Rust

#292

Post by FpUser »

atoav wrote: post #285
FpUser wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"90% of the time this is dumb overhead, but 10% of the time it found a bug in some edge case, so I learned to appreciate it as a tough teacher, and my designs got better for it." Sounds kind of like Stockholm syndrome

And you sound like you are part of the reason why we still have exploitable null-pointer bugs in 2022. Imagine a structural engineer that would say "all that static and dynamic analysis is dumb overhead 90% of the time, so I am going to skip it" . Imagine an electrical engineer who would go like "all these wire gauge calculations are exhausting, 90% of the time my installations don't catch fire" Seriously, I sometime…

Nothing is wrong. Same shit as in any other area. It is a usual trade-off between what you pay and what you get in return, some of it highly politicized.

Re: How I went about learning Rust

#293

Post by eyelidlessness »

dredmorbius wrote: post #279
eyelidlessness wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The danger with these arguments is that you only notice the cases that don't work. That's a 100% failure rate! Can't get more stupid than that! I’m gonna go out on a limb and suggest maybe you’re too close to this. I notice the “clear win” cases frequently too. At best they’re very clearly and awkwardly editorialized. I click on them frequently just to reassure myself that I’m aware I’m not mistaking reality for fi…

What's "\d" in this context?

Digits. Regex syntax, sorry about that.

Re: How I went about learning Rust

#295

Post by lossolo »

mihaigalos wrote: post #26
tofuahdude wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How "large" is the garbage collector penalty? My understanding is that the Go GC is significantly more efficient than for example JS's mark/sweep approach. Apples to oranges for sure, but I am interested in better understanding how expensive the Go GC is vs Rust performance.

Check out the discord article I posted in the original reply. If I interpret the graphs correctly, I see: Golang: * baseline 20% cpu + spikes to 35% once the GC runs. * response times of about 1ms + spikes up to 10ms. Rust: * baseline 12% cpu + flat, no spiking. * response times of 20us + flat, no spiking (!). In terms of scaling, I interpret the results in favor of Rust. My reasoning is the more you run the GC, the…

Posting links to his blog post is misleading in 2022. The issue they mention in their blog was fixed so it's not an issue now.

Re: How I went about learning Rust

#296

Post by mihaigalos »

lossolo wrote: post #295
mihaigalos wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Check out the discord article I posted in the original reply. If I interpret the graphs correctly, I see: Golang: * baseline 20% cpu + spikes to 35% once the GC runs. * response times of about 1ms + spikes up to 10ms. Rust: * baseline 12% cpu + flat, no spiking. * response times of 20us + flat, no spiking (!). In terms of scaling, I interpret the results in favor of Rust. My reasoning is the more you run the GC, the…

Posting links to his blog post is misleading in 2022. The issue they mention in their blog was fixed so it's not an issue now.

That's interesting. Would like to read about the solution more. Do you have a reference?

Re: How I went about learning Rust

#298

Post by nailer »

groby_b wrote: post #266
nailer wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I.e. if you pass maybe-scores to something that computes the mean, you'll get a compiler error. The writer of the mean function doesn't need to care you've overloaded an error value onto your numbers. If I pass a null into something that calculates an average, taking numbers, the TS compiler will complain now. The writer of mean() (assuming mean() is typed) doesn’t have to know anything about my code.

This only works for non-sentinels. I.e. if "-1" happens to be the value indicating NoScore, I don't think the TS compiler can catch that?

Nobody is discussing using a magic number for null, nor is that an accepted practice in TS.

Re: How I went about learning Rust

#299

Post by nailer »

brobinson wrote: post #273
nailer wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but that’s no less work than checking for null in TypeScript. The parent said: > In your example, you still have to manually check if there's a value every time, but this is not compiler-enforced.

Sure, it's the same amount of work, but you're forced to do it and the compiler will be able to reject invalid programs. In languages that allow null (including TS, it doesn't 100% enforce the stuff that Haskell, etc. does), you can skip that check, saving some work I suppose, at the risk of your code exploding at runtime. Having stack traces which jump across 50,000 lines of code because someone forgot to check for…

TS wouldn’t let you skip that check though.

Re: How I went about learning Rust

#300

Post by bzmrgonz »

eliben wrote: post #238
bzmrgonz wrote: post #236

You forgot to mention prior experience, which languages if any you have under your belt.

This is explained in much detail in the very first link, in the very first sentence of the post :-)

Apologies, I'm guilty of skimming thru. Thanks for clarifying.
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