Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Knife Maker

thisismadebyhand.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 199 posts

Re: The Knife Maker

#81

Post by onemoreact »

spacemanaki wrote: post #49
patio11 wrote: post #33

I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic makes me positively Marxist. There…

"functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion" I haven't actually used this guy's knives. But I've used cheap knives and I've cut myself on cheap, dull knives that don't hold their edge. And I've used moderately expensive knives. It's night and day. Cheap knives just aren't functionally equivalent. The same can be said about coffee, chocolate and other fair trade stuff. Ground Maxwell coffee that…

There is a difference between a premium brand, and a premium brand that promotes fair trade. As a friend used to work in a supermarket used to say, when the oranges got a little old we would relabel them as organic and increase the price.

Note: I buy organic food, but I try and verify it's a bettor product before it's a habit. Otherwise it's vary easy to spend more money on something you like less.

Re: The Knife Maker

#82

Post by mc32 »

sliverstorm wrote: post #65
patio11 wrote: post #33

I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic makes me positively Marxist. There…

Why is the handmade movement extravagantly wasteful? The main resource added in handmade prodcuts is time, and unlike helium, crude oil and heavy metals, time is not a scarce resource we risk using up.

I think they mean it's wasteful in the way having a chauffer is wasteful. (I don't agree with that contention). "Look, I have the time and money to learn a dying, inefficient art whilst you order yours thru Amazon --like everyone else. This makes me a little special."

Re: The Knife Maker

#83

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

culturestate wrote: post #48
apechai wrote: post #19

Beautiful knives. I hope the handmade movement really takes off. Maybe people could consume less but unique artifacts that have a real story behind them rather than accumulating mountains of mass produced, generic stuff that ends up in a trash heap a couple of years later.

There is a happy medium with mass production - the main issue is that many people (in my observation) no longer value quality equally to price, e.g. the cheapest pot from WalMart will do, and when it chips or warps next year we'll just spend $15 on another one instead of buying a single $50 version that will last. One of the greatest lessons that I've ever learned in business is that you shouldn't spend extravagantly…

you shouldn't be afraid to spend a little more for quality where it matters

It's more likely that they don't see any reason to spend more than $15. Someone knows they can get a pot that looks OK for $15, whereas the $50 doesn't have any immediately obvious benefit.

I love tools, but I'm far from a tool snob. I have lots of cheap tools because I'm never going to wear out, e.g., a screwdriver. It's worth more to me to have five $3 screwdrivers than a single $15 one. But I just spent $200 on a wire crimping tool because I know that the $15 ones won't do the job right. But if they did, then there is no way I'd buy the more expensive one. Most people are just like that: they won't spend more than they have to unless there is a clear benefit.

Re: The Knife Maker

#84

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #82
sliverstorm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is the handmade movement extravagantly wasteful? The main resource added in handmade prodcuts is time, and unlike helium, crude oil and heavy metals, time is not a scarce resource we risk using up.

I think they mean it's wasteful in the way having a chauffer is wasteful. (I don't agree with that contention). "Look, I have the time and money to learn a dying, inefficient art whilst you order yours thru Amazon --like everyone else. This makes me a little special."

[deleted]

Re: The Knife Maker

#85

Post by freemarketteddy »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #46
freemarketteddy wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There was a time when only wealthy folks could afford goods. Capitalism happened and now everyone can afford goods. Okay this may sound abstract.....when you buy an object which has been crafted to perfection by another artist....you dont just buy the object ....it feels like you almost bought some of that perfection...it feels like maybe it can breathe some perfection into your work! On a cynical note maybe it make…

Marketing works. This is an example of marketing based on authenticity. Regarding perfection: machines are much more capable of perfection re: manufacturing than humans. Where I think we get confused is that in the past only corporations had the capital to mass-produce, and they have an incentive to "race to the bottom" in terms of production cost. Although it's not the goal, usually quality suffers as a result. So,…

> It's clear to me that the goods manufactured by passionate, talented, (and largely under-capitalized) craftspeople are inferior to what could be made by automation.

That is not true for all goods....I cannot forsee a computer making a better painting than a good human artist in the near future....In fact I cant even forsee a computer understanding what a good painting actually is in the near future...This holds true for music too....In general works of art are (and will be in the near future) better crafted by humans.

But can you please point to me some good books on this subject.I find this topic very interesting.

Re: The Knife Maker

#86

Post by bryanlarsen »

sliverstorm wrote: post #65
patio11 wrote: post #33

I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic makes me positively Marxist. There…

Why is the handmade movement extravagantly wasteful? The main resource added in handmade prodcuts is time, and unlike helium, crude oil and heavy metals, time is not a scarce resource we risk using up.

If you go by price signals, human time is one of the scarcest resources on the planet.

Re: The Knife Maker

#87

Post by sliverstorm »

mc32 wrote: post #78
patio11 wrote: post #33

I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic makes me positively Marxist. There…

I like positively middle class factory produced Global knives. That said, to me, this movement is just an extension of the "Home Depot"/DIY effect --nothing more. It's not egotistical whites or egotistical Japanese who make hand-crafted goods only because they can afford to. It's people who enjoy craft for the sake of craft, rather than a show of superiority.

Yea, I identify with the guy, and as best I can tell he just enjoys his newfound craft. For someone like that, selling your work provides you two things- validation when other people like your work, and money to keep doing what you love doing.

Re: The Knife Maker

#88

Post by dangrover »

mapleoin wrote: post #35
patio11 wrote: post #33

I'm torn between "This guy clearly enjoys his work, bully for him." and "The handmade movement is an extravagantly wasteful alternative to a factory in China to give rich white people an opportunity to demonstrate their social superiority over people who use functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion." (c.f. organic food, fair trade coffee, etc etc. This topic makes me positively Marxist. There…

So you're saying that fair trade coffee benefits "the white man" rather than the producers in the third-world country? That's exactly the opposite of what fair trade means. Also, hand-made isn't fighting against capitalism, it's fighting against mass-production, sweat-shops and machine-people jobs like the ones portrayed on Chaplin's City Lights or even Discovery Channel's How It's Made .

No, but the price difference between buying normal and fair trade (as a consumer) is much larger than the price difference between the underlying coffee crop used in each.

Tim Harford wrote about this: http://timharford.com/2008/04/business-life-fair-trade-or-fo...

In some cases, he says, fair trade is 10X the margin!

Fair trade exists to segment the market and collect more consumer surplus (more than it exists to improve conditions).

Re: The Knife Maker

#89

Post by spacemanaki »

onemoreact wrote: post #81
spacemanaki wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"functionally equivalent objects produced in an efficient fashion" I haven't actually used this guy's knives. But I've used cheap knives and I've cut myself on cheap, dull knives that don't hold their edge. And I've used moderately expensive knives. It's night and day. Cheap knives just aren't functionally equivalent. The same can be said about coffee, chocolate and other fair trade stuff. Ground Maxwell coffee that…

There is a difference between a premium brand, and a premium brand that promotes fair trade. As a friend used to work in a supermarket used to say, when the oranges got a little old we would relabel them as organic and increase the price. Note: I buy organic food, but I try and verify it's a bettor product before it's a habit. Otherwise it's vary easy to spend more money on something you like less.

> There is a difference between a premium brand, and a premium brand that promotes fair trade.

That's true, but when it comes to coffee, in my experience the two overlap a lot.

Post reply on HN