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Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

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Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#981

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC apartment vacancy is at 4% compared to 6% nationally. The “vacant apartments and foreign owners are cashing rents to go up meme” is a straight up conspiracy theory. We need to build more units. It’s really that simple. Any regulation that leads to less units should be heavily reconsidered. Limiting the number of units someone can own would be horrible for increasing supply.

"`The “vacant apartments and foreign owners are cashing rents to go up meme” is a straight up conspiracy theory. "' Please refute with data

I just did. Only 4% of units are vacant. The lack of vacant units means they can’t be the cause of rent increases…

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#982

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m paying $1600 for a 3 bed in one of chicagos hottest neighborhoods. The trick is density, Chicago is made up of 3/4 flats and apartment blocks with solid public transport, so supply meets demand at a reasonable price. Of course the shitty weather and corruption helps lower demand too, but I’d say $600 a month housing cost is worth it.

And you have a yard? A parking spot? A walkable food thing? A friend networks whereby you loan tools? Rent Tools? A network of people who will help you when down/sick/hurt/displaced? You're paying for an accentuated CELL in urban hell. Just because you have a "dope spot to show how urban your display is" You dont have shit. Cut off all your power, access to food stuffs, equipment, necessities (pwr, wtr, fd, transport…

Not really sure what to make of this and your other comment other than you’re off your meds

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#983
post #390

The problem for me, as a long time NYC resident, is that there's no other place in America I want to live even with work from home as a possibility. I like mass transit. I like not owning a car. I like that the city is generally safer than the rest of America. I like that it's the center for tech on the east coast, the arts for the entire country, and finance for most of the world. I like that we generally get along…

> I like that the city is generally safer than the rest of America. Coming from New Hampshire: this is just fantastically untrue. NYC is about one hundred times more violent than where I live. It is so thoroughly not the same that I can usually tell when people come from cities simply based on how nervous they are. I think most people don't realize how badly it affects them, or how violent cities are versus "the rest…

It's also worth noting that Manchester, NH, which is where an Amherst resident is likely to spend a non negligible amount of time (nearest shopping mall, hospital, etc), has a comparable (slightly higher violent, much higher property) crime rate than NYC.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#984

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you have a yard? A parking spot? A walkable food thing? A friend networks whereby you loan tools? Rent Tools? A network of people who will help you when down/sick/hurt/displaced? You're paying for an accentuated CELL in urban hell. Just because you have a "dope spot to show how urban your display is" You dont have shit. Cut off all your power, access to food stuffs, equipment, necessities (pwr, wtr, fd, transport…

Not really sure what to make of this and your other comment other than you’re off your meds

What I am saying is that the majority of people have zero Community about them, and where they live.

In any disaster scenario, 99% of the people, environment and resources surrounding them are foreign.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#985

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably the total number of people in the city anually is 10x the people who live there. That number doesn't really matter, does it? I'd think the average number of people there each day is much closer to the relevant number.

> I'd think the average number of people there each day is much closer to the relevant number. Yes, and that "average number of people there each day" would include all the non-residents/tourists in the city. Which is a non-trivial number at all for NYC.

Yes, of course it would count them. But that number will be much much smaller. If the average visitor is there for a week, then a million yearly visitors only increase the daily population by 20k. You'd expect a crime increase equivalent to 20k residents or less.

So if there really is an 11x increase in crime, along with a 10x increase in yearly population, that's actually a huge increase in crime on a per-person per-day basis.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#986
post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment nicely attempts to paint high earning (not necessarily wealthy) upper middle class professionals as the scapegoat for an issue they did not create. The reality is, the people who are actually wealthy (think deca millionaires on up through billionaires) and investment firms and corporations are the ones suppressing supply for individual home owners. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/23/us/corporate-real-est…

This isn't true at all. The vast vast majority of homes in the US are owned by single family homeowners. And even if that wasn't true it wouldn't make much of a difference. Investment firms don't purchase homes to let them sit there, they purchase homes to rent them out. To whatever degree they're competing against single family homeowners they're just causing a small percentage of housing to shift from owner occupie…

Who's more instrumental in driving housing policy?

Homeowners?

Mortagage generators & holders (that is, creditors)?

Developers?

What of markets with significant concentration of property ownership?

Or of commercial property owners, who can also skew zoning and construction / land-use patterns?

What of interest groups which can create red-tape nightmares even through good intentions by various mandates: setbacks, offsets, minimum clearances, ramp requirements, etc.

Podcats / video channels / blogs such as StrongTowns or Shane Philips (UCLA Lewsi Centre) are all great starting points for how a tangle of minimum requirements and/or prohibitions starts blocking any possible change from traditional urban-sprawl patterns. Most have observed that the highly-desireable dense development of older cities and towns (1870s -- 1950s, typically) simply isn't possible under current laws and regulations.

I'm generally a fan of regulation, but it's got to be good and effective, rather than simply piled on. As with software, code requires occasional refactoring.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#987
post #677
post #390

The problem for me, as a long time NYC resident, is that there's no other place in America I want to live even with work from home as a possibility. I like mass transit. I like not owning a car. I like that the city is generally safer than the rest of America. I like that it's the center for tech on the east coast, the arts for the entire country, and finance for most of the world. I like that we generally get along…

Just to provide a 3rd party reaction here: it sounds like you've circularly reasoned yourself into a trap of your own making. You don't want to live anywhere else because you like NYC . Because no other city is exactly like NYC, you aren't interested in living anywhere else. The reason it's "circular" is because there are cities with good transit, good arts, great food, have a tech scene, and even have financial dist…

What is a "world city?"

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#988

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost no value, Have you considered that housing might actually be valuable? If it didn’t provide value, why do you think that Vienna seized so much of it to give out to its citizens? Maybe try to find a different way to phrase whatever you’re trying to say. Assuming you’re referring to property owners…

> Let me ask you another question. What do people do who are not happy with the housing provided by the govt in Vienna? Rent from another landlord mostly. Vienna has close to two million people (give or take some), however only around 500.000 of those live in buildings owned by the city [0]. Those are 1800 buildings by the way, definitely a lot but not unbelievably massive. Compared to some private companies, such as…

> Rent from another landlord mostly.

So the other landlords are providing some value the city is not. That’s my point.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#989

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let me ask you another question. What do people do who are not happy with the housing provided by the govt in Vienna? Rent from another landlord mostly. Vienna has close to two million people (give or take some), however only around 500.000 of those live in buildings owned by the city [0]. Those are 1800 buildings by the way, definitely a lot but not unbelievably massive. Compared to some private companies, such as…

> Rent from another landlord mostly. So the other landlords are providing some value the city is not. That’s my point.

You could argue that they are providing the same value as the city is (housing). It's not like this is some kind of either or situation.

The city is providing value, approximately 500.000 housing units worth of value. Private landlords provide value, the remaining one point something million units worth of housing.

You could of course replace either provider, it doesn't make a practical difference whether you are renting from the city or a private landlord, at least not if we are looking at this from a top down perspective with hundreds of thousands of units.

But the whole point of the city buying into the market was to create competition and ensure that the property market isn't used as an investment/doesn't pay as great as another investment. So with that in mind the current system is actually kind of what they were aiming for.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#990
post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AAA's average new car TCO is close to $10,000 a year. Multiply by two for a typical couple and that's $1600 a month you could dump into your NYC apartment's high rent. First, you can get by just fine without a new car. My car was $26k new - 18 years ago. I’ve put another $10k over the years in maintenance (tires, oil, repairs). Insurance is $500/year. Gas is maybe $2k/year at $4/gal. Not even close to $10k/year. Th…

Here are some numbers that are not focused on new cars specifically. If the $10k figured I gave you is high, you can still expect that Americans are still going to spend thousands per year on their car, maybe around $5,000 a year. [1] Insurance $500 a year as you stated, and then you've got a typical driver driving somewhere around 15,000 miles a year if not more. [2] If you've got a 30MPG car [2.1] at $4.50 a gallon…

> If you've got a car payment like 35% of Americans, the average payment for a used car is around $500 [2.3], but since we're dealing with averages and vehicles whose lifespans exceed their loans, maybe we can just go ahead and cut that in half to $250/month.

Ask yourself why only 35% have payments. Also, half is pretty pessimistic since a car loan on the long end is 6 years.

> How are you supposed to own only one car if you are a dual-income household in the suburbs and work two different jobs at different locations? Owning one car per person is not a "luxury" in this country, it is just about the norm (1.88 cars per person in the USA). [3]

One person drops the other off. This isn’t a difficult problem and it’s how my parents did it for nearly 15 years way back in the 70s and 80s. Clearly car ownership is a foreign concept to you, but at least try to steelman it to get a decent argument.

> You really think NYC has a lower obesity rate as an effect rather than a cause, as in, all the people with obesity just say "well, I guess I can't live here anymore, I'll go move to the suburbs?" Do you have any information to back up that type of thinking?

Are you seriously asking for proof that obese and disabled people aren’t the biggest fans of having to walk everywhere?

>New York (due to NYC) is the most physically active state according to FitBit, and you're gonna jump on here and claim that this completely disconnected obesity rates

You’re getting confused again and assuming that the city is causing activity rather than just forcing the inactive people out by being an unfriendly environment to them.

> The 65+ commuters in NYC are actually the most active commuting segment of the population and over half walk 10 blocks or more per day. [5] I have a hunch they might still be alive and productive because they're so active!

The segment of the population who does X tends to do X! News at 10! This doesn’t say anything about the community that can’t walk.

> NYC's subway system will be 95% accessible by 2055, [6] which is really quite soon on the scale of city planning and development. About 25% of stations are currently accessible, and really a subway system 25% the size of NYC's system is still a vast transit network. This also doesn't include New York's vast bus system, which is essentially 100% accessible.

“Accessible” doesn’t mean convenient. The elevators are fucking shit in the stations that are accessible and getting to/from the stations is still shit. I took a wheelchair bound aunt to a play on broadway maybe 10 years ago, and it was awful even with me pushing her. Accessibility isn’t a checkbox.

>Tell me, how do you expect the vision impaired to get around in areas that require cars?

Non sequitur, I’m not talking about blind people. I’m talking about mobility impaired people.

> including perhaps the best city park in the entire world, Central Park

It’s an amazing park, but it’s just a park. The comparison to wilderness is laughable.

> Last point: How hard is it really to live in a small apartment

Depends on if you treat your apartment as a box to shit in and sleep in between spending all of your time elsewhere or as a place to actually live and spend huge parts of the daytime. There is a reason NYC was one of the worst places to be quarantined.

> I'm also being generous, the national average is 25MPG not 30MPG.

No you’re not, you quoted $4.50/gal for gas when that hasn’t been an average people have paid until the Ukrainian invasion.

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