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Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

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Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#21
post #5
post #3

In my personal experience the main problem with scientific research today is caused by publication counts representing the sole metric for academic success. Research is 'optimized' for publications and segmented according to conference schedules. That in itself I consider detrimental to the research effort. However the major damage in terms of advancing resarch in my opinion is caused by the induced tendency of schol…

> In my personal experience the main problem with scientific research today is caused by publication counts representing the sole metric for academic success. It also leads to bloat in the literature: People learn the "least publishable increment" and go publish that.

Exactly. A study by Tuliving and Madigan (http://alicekim.ca/AnnRev70.pdf) outlines this nicely. In the words of David T. Lykken (http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.118...):

In their 1970 Annual review chapter on Memory and Verbal learning, Tulving and madigan reported that they had independently rated 540 published articles in terms of their "contribution to knowledge". With "remarkable agreement", they found that they had sorted two-thirds of the articles into a category labelled "utterly inconsequential". "The primary function these papers serve is to give something to do to people who count papers instead of reading them. Future research and understanding of verbal learning and memory would not be affected at all if none of the papers in this category seen the light of day"

About 25 percent of the articles were classified as: "run-of-the-mill .. these articles also do not add anything really new to knowledge... [such articles] make one wish that at least some writers, faced with the decision of whether to publish or perish, should have seriously considered the latter alternative"

Only about 10% of the entire set of published papers received the modest compliment of being classified as "worthwhile". Given that memory and verbal learning was then a popular and relatively 'hard' area of psychological research, attracting some of the brightest students, this is a devastating assessment of the end product. Hence, of the research ideas generated by these psychologists, who are all card-carrying scientists and who liked these ideas well enough to invest weeks or months of their lives working on them, less than 25% of 40% of 10% = 1% actually appear to make some sort of contribution to the discipline.

Given that this work was published in the 1970s when the "publish or perish" pressure was less strongly developed I expect today's number to be worse. Concerning Information Retrieval the field of research of my PhD I would certainly attest that this applies.

Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#22
post #20
post #3

In my personal experience the main problem with scientific research today is caused by publication counts representing the sole metric for academic success. Research is 'optimized' for publications and segmented according to conference schedules. That in itself I consider detrimental to the research effort. However the major damage in terms of advancing resarch in my opinion is caused by the induced tendency of schol…

There's been an attempt to measure paper quality using the "impact factor", but as with seemingly every measure, it's led to shenanigans. Some publishers encourage authors to cite papers from their journals, and some editors write survey papers that happen to cite a bunch of articles from their journals. A recent AMS Notices covered this in math, and I sort of expect it's worse in other disciplines.

To me it looks a lot like a manipulation of search engine. Maybe Google or Microsoft will not disclose their rank inflation counter-tactics, but what they could do is to provide their solution for this specific verticals.

As much as I'd like open-source effort for that, I understand that knowing the rules allows easy manipulation.

Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#23

Two comments: 1. Scientists publish in slow peer reviewed journals, because scientific publication has to be peer reviewed. The reviewers are a very small selection of other scientists, who are expert in the field of the publication. As long as the reviewers don't signal white smoke, a publication is no science by definition. This way of work is important to keep quality excellent. We certainly don't need more quickl…

Speed is important for a number of factors, mistakes cost less if they can be quickly corrected. So being risky and publishing about your failures becomes useful (no one publishes failures...). Speed also reduces duplicate work.

Peer review is slow because publishing and retracting used to take a long time, now it is instant. And as for the quality of the reviewer, perhaps it would make sense for the journal to employ professional scientists that only review -- they'll be up to date on all the current research (that's their job), can highlight gaps, and can help cross pollinate other disciplines by reviewing 2 or 3 different but related topics.

The idea that a scientist should do everything seems to be more and more inefficient. We need to break down tasks like we do in the commercial world so that experts can move faster.

Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#24
post #15

Two comments: 1. Scientists publish in slow peer reviewed journals, because scientific publication has to be peer reviewed. The reviewers are a very small selection of other scientists, who are expert in the field of the publication. As long as the reviewers don't signal white smoke, a publication is no science by definition. This way of work is important to keep quality excellent. We certainly don't need more quickl…

To add to that, 3. Scientists (particularly academics) should focus on a smaller number of solid, flushed-out papers rather than seeking out the minimum publishable unit. The latter seems to be a byproduct of the tenure process (IMO) and just adds noise.

How about you focus on publishing diffs to an overview (or so) instead of self-contained articles?

Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#25

Two comments: 1. Scientists publish in slow peer reviewed journals, because scientific publication has to be peer reviewed. The reviewers are a very small selection of other scientists, who are expert in the field of the publication. As long as the reviewers don't signal white smoke, a publication is no science by definition. This way of work is important to keep quality excellent. We certainly don't need more quickl…

Speed is important for a number of factors, mistakes cost less if they can be quickly corrected. So being risky and publishing about your failures becomes useful (no one publishes failures...). Speed also reduces duplicate work. Peer review is slow because publishing and retracting used to take a long time, now it is instant. And as for the quality of the reviewer, perhaps it would make sense for the journal to emplo…

>Speed is important for a number of factors, mistakes cost less if they can be quickly corrected. So being risky and publishing about your failures becomes useful (no one publishes failures...). Speed also reduces duplicate work.

You're missing the point of scientific publication. The entire point of publication is so others can reproduce your work. Speed doesn't work if you need a billion data points taken over 20 years to prove a long term issue.

>The idea that a scientist should do everything seems to be more and more inefficient. We need to break down tasks like we do in the commercial world so that experts can move faster.

The problem here is that for a lot of cutting edge theoretical research, the experts are the only ones qualified to really vet the paper. And finding experts that: 1. Are capable of understanding everything in the paper and 2. Are willing to put aside their personal research to review the paper is a VERY small set of people.

For example, the P=NP proofs produced over the last few years were only presented to a small group of about 20 very qualified mathematicians to vet. I, with an undergrad CS degree, could barely understand the summary of the proofs. As far as I know, those proofs still have not been completely refuted or accepted. I don't think that this is inefficient, it's simply the fact that there aren't enough people with enough time to really work with extraordinarily complex concepts and ideas.

Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#26

Two comments: 1. Scientists publish in slow peer reviewed journals, because scientific publication has to be peer reviewed. The reviewers are a very small selection of other scientists, who are expert in the field of the publication. As long as the reviewers don't signal white smoke, a publication is no science by definition. This way of work is important to keep quality excellent. We certainly don't need more quickl…

I'm sorry, but I must disagree with the spirit of your points.

Scientists publish in slow peer reviewed journals, because scientific publication has to be peer reviewed. The reviewers are a very small selection of other scientists, who are expert in the field of the publication.

So, when you throw work out into the open, anyone with an interest in your topic (your functional peers) will be able to do their own analysis of your work (a review)--some sort of peer-review, if you will. All without needing to go through a stodgy paper review process.

This way of work is important to keep quality excellent. We certainly don't need more quickly published junk that stirs the world but is found to be inaccurate later.

So, if there is one thing we've seen in the programming world, secluded cabals of experts don't always result in excellent quality (I submit to you, OpenGL, C++, CORBA, for a few examples).

New patches are submitted to open-source projects all the time; some are accepted, some are rebuked publicly, and some merely catalyze interesting discussion. "Stirring the world" is hardly a bad thing--in the case of Fleischmann-Pons, the debunking happened quickly and the world was free to move on. In a similar avenue, one of the reasons that the eCat story is frustrating is the lack of transparency (both from the inventors and the media refusing to even air solid rebuttals)--were the information more open, we could sort it into bunk/science and move on.

Can we accelerate the process of peer reviewing? I doubt that. As I have written, the reviewers are other scientists who have to find the time to read and comment new articles. The more time they spend with this, the less time they spend doing research. So the small amount of experts usually is responsible for being slow.

So, you make the (valid) claim that the process can't go faster, predicating on the scarcity of experts. You seem to have the answer at hand: get more experts. This can be accomplished by either getting more researchers reviewing, or loosening the restrictions on who is considered a valid source. Indeed, places like StackExchange have shown us how to pick out decently good judges of these things--we don't have as great a need for the older method of establishing experts, anymore.

2. The author writes, we could make progress faster. Please: why? It seems to be a sign of the time that we want to accelerate everything. It is most likely that this will only produce more noise. We need to slow down our lives and our thinking to stay accurate and produce real value.

In order to help motivate the need for faster progress, please note the following:

Earth has over 7 billion people now. (http://www.unfpa.org/swp/)

The bottom 50% of people in the world (rightly or wrongly) own around 1% of the wealth. (http://escholarship.org/uc/item/3jv048hx#page-4)

We (at least those of us in the first world) don't have a lot of time left, unless we can find ways of solving the Big Problems. Progress in tech is likely the only palatable solution to this predicament. We can't really afford to slow down now.

I am glad that science results, at least in my field, are still reliably scrutinized by many. This way I know that reading and spending the time to understand the stuff is worth my time.

I'm greatly concerned about this sort of attitude. Might I suggest that an occasional dalliance in "time-wasting" articles might prove refreshing, and further that it could help ferret out ideas that would otherwise be overlooked?

edit: Modified for civility. Sorry folks.

Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#27
post #7

To disrupt scientific research you need to change the way that science is funded. Science is not for-profit, unlike the disrupted industries mentioned here. If you have to show how determining how a flagella works is going to produce revenue, then you are going to stifle science in another way. Good science is slow, deliberate, and motivated by open-ended questions and discovery, not by end points. We need to fund th…

"Science is not for-profit"

Science is also not not-for-profit. Plenty of for-profit businesses do research, and publish in scientific journals. Some research fields (drug development comes first to mind) have a very large industry presence.

Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#28

Two comments: 1. Scientists publish in slow peer reviewed journals, because scientific publication has to be peer reviewed. The reviewers are a very small selection of other scientists, who are expert in the field of the publication. As long as the reviewers don't signal white smoke, a publication is no science by definition. This way of work is important to keep quality excellent. We certainly don't need more quickl…

I'm sorry, but I must disagree with the spirit of your points. Scientists publish in slow peer reviewed journals, because scientific publication has to be peer reviewed. The reviewers are a very small selection of other scientists, who are expert in the field of the publication. So, when you throw work out into the open, anyone with an interest in your topic (your functional peers) will be able to do their own analys…

[deleted]

Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#29

Two comments: 1. Scientists publish in slow peer reviewed journals, because scientific publication has to be peer reviewed. The reviewers are a very small selection of other scientists, who are expert in the field of the publication. As long as the reviewers don't signal white smoke, a publication is no science by definition. This way of work is important to keep quality excellent. We certainly don't need more quickl…

I'm sorry, but I must disagree with the spirit of your points. Scientists publish in slow peer reviewed journals, because scientific publication has to be peer reviewed. The reviewers are a very small selection of other scientists, who are expert in the field of the publication. So, when you throw work out into the open, anyone with an interest in your topic (your functional peers) will be able to do their own analys…

Here's a paper I read yesterday. Kindly review it for me:

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1107.2875.pdf

The scheme you are advocating might have succeeded 200 years ago, when science was happening at a much for fundamental level than it is now. These days, things are so specialized that what the OP says is spot-on: only a handful of people are qualified to knowledgeably comment on your work. What's more, these people are all /incredibly/ busy; I would know since I spend my time trying to get their attention (grad student) :-) In short, the way we conduct research is kind of like what Churchill said about democracy; it's the worst system except for all the other systems.

Re: Why the world of scientific research needs to be disrupted

#30
post #21
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In my personal experience the main problem with scientific research today is caused by publication counts representing the sole metric for academic success. It also leads to bloat in the literature: People learn the "least publishable increment" and go publish that.

Exactly. A study by Tuliving and Madigan ( http://alicekim.ca/AnnRev70.pdf ) outlines this nicely. In the words of David T. Lykken ( http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.118... ): In their 1970 Annual review chapter on Memory and Verbal learning, Tulving and madigan reported that they had independently rated 540 published articles in terms of their "contribution to knowledge". With "remarkable agr…

I have been trawling through large numbers of papers recently as part of my computer science Master's background research, and some papers are quite frankly unintelligible garble... I can't even understand how they passed peer review.

I would say that of the articles I've read, maybe 5% are meaningful contributions that advance the science; maybe 25% contribute something to the current understanding, perhaps 60% are "we did something cool", and 10% are "are these reviewers awake".

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