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Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

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Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#41
So many are trashing the live action that I'd like to offer my opinion.

I enjoyed it for what it was, a reimagining. Vicious' actor was terrible but he picked up towards the end. John Cho did a good nod to Spike, Mustafa Shakir killed it as Jet, and Daniella Pineda was decent as Faye.

What absolutely caught my attention was the production quality of the sets though out the show. Each shot felt heavily inspired by the original material and I can honestly study them for awhile at a time, pausing throughout episodes to catch the little details. It was akin to the sets of I.T. Crowd.

It's a beautifully shot show and I challenge others to at least study some scenes. I refuse to believe that I'm alone in this opinion!

Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#42
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very rare example of an anime where I prefer the dub to the original audio. Not only was the casting and acting excellent, but they even went the extra mile in the mixing and environmental audio, which was fine in the original but even improved in the dub.

I logged in to comment to say I absolutely despised the dub. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBdxUNk1wR4 Do not watch the dub.

The dub seems way better in that comparison. Generally I far prefer the dub tho for most anime. I’m not Japanese and so the sub always feels lifeless and serious. The dub is way more entertaining

Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#43

So many are trashing the live action that I'd like to offer my opinion. I enjoyed it for what it was, a reimagining. Vicious' actor was terrible but he picked up towards the end. John Cho did a good nod to Spike, Mustafa Shakir killed it as Jet, and Daniella Pineda was decent as Faye. What absolutely caught my attention was the production quality of the sets though out the show. Each shot felt heavily inspired by the…

You're absolutely not alone - I enjoyed it a great deal!

I preferred the original - some lines in the live-action felt cheesy (in a "pull you out of the fiction" way, not a "this is a strong genre piece and we're leaning into the genre" way), and I felt like the criticism of capitalism in the LA was dulled-down to the point of near-absence - but the LA was certainly enjoyable, and, as you say, spectacularly set-dressed and shot.

At one point I remarked to my partner that "everything about this show is fantastic except for the script"

Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#44

I remember stumbling across Cowboy Bebop on Adult Swim in the late 90’s. No idea about the show previously but was immediately hooked. Glad they picked it up. [Edit] Looks like the AS promos are still on Youtube: https://youtu.be/Qh8JkogEaFs

I only recently learned that Spike's English VA was also the VA for TOM, the CGI robot host of Toonami.

Wow, I hear it now!

Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I logged in to comment to say I absolutely despised the dub. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBdxUNk1wR4 Do not watch the dub.

The dub seems way better in that comparison. Generally I far prefer the dub tho for most anime. I’m not Japanese and so the sub always feels lifeless and serious. The dub is way more entertaining

The dub is comical and has bad acting. The pacing and the tone is completely off from how normal people talk.

The japanese, even though I don't understand it, has a better tone and the talking doesn't sound forced.

Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#46
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could have been successfully moved into live action, but as the animation was built by creative genius, you'd need the same level of skill for a good live action. Maybe someone like Joss Whedon could have breathed life into it? The show had potential, but the casting was bad, the character design was bad, the writing was bad, the directing was sub-par, and the aesthetic was 75% there which just isn't enough for so…

Maybe someone like Joss Whedon could have breathed life into it? Joss Whedon has his turn with Cowboy Bebop when it was called 'Firefly' :P

And that was an excellent show. His work there could easily apply to Bebop.

Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#47

So many are trashing the live action that I'd like to offer my opinion. I enjoyed it for what it was, a reimagining. Vicious' actor was terrible but he picked up towards the end. John Cho did a good nod to Spike, Mustafa Shakir killed it as Jet, and Daniella Pineda was decent as Faye. What absolutely caught my attention was the production quality of the sets though out the show. Each shot felt heavily inspired by the…

If they called it something else, a lot less people would mind! The fact that they called it a "live adaption of Cowboy Bebop" naturally causes people to compare the two... and if the live adaption reimagines all of the characters and changes plot lines, people are going to complain... even if you ignore all of the woke nonsense they added.

Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#48
post #3

> When its live-action reboot failed last year Did it fail? I enjoyed it! I don’t stay up to date with the critics though. Hope this doesn't mean the second season won’t get made.

Netflix has a pattern. They have stats from a lot of multi-season shows and know that there's a sharp drop off in viewers the more seasons a show runs for, even if they're all excellent. This makes the first season a great investment, but remaining seasons are subject to rapidly diminishing returns.

So, their solution is to put a lot of effort into season 1 and, if it does really well, put vastly diminished resources into season 2. If season 1 doesn't blow their metrics out the window, they just cancel it. Since season 2's produced under this approach are usually pretty rough (e.g. Altered Carbon), there are almost never season 3's. There are exceptions (e.g. Stranger Things), but there are an awful lot of Netflix shows that never get a second season despite a very respectable first season (e.g. Marco Polo).

The anime version of Cowboy Bebop is a classic. In general, it's hard to remake a classic and leave fans of the classic happy. When the first shots of the costumes and cast came out I almost completely dismissed the Netfix series. Harold from Harold&Kumar is Spike? Jet looked like a janitor. The hype wasn't there for me.

So, I delayed watching the series, heard the grumblings, and went in with low expectations.

This is not Netflix's A-game. They did a great job in some respects, but really cheaped out in others.

The casting is a mixed bag, but mostly good. John Cho is actually pretty good as spike and Mustafa Shakir is brilliant as Jet. Pineda's Faye Valentine was less good. While Spike and Jet still felt at least somewhat like the anime characters, Valentine in the Netflix series was just off, and far too comical. Ed shows up only in the last episode and, well... Yeah. Let's face it, Ed is a difficult role and has to be played by someone fairly young. If I were directing a series like this I'd definitely want to shoot several episodes from later in the series with Ed before shooting the introduction precisely because of how hard it is to jump into the roll. The actor who played Ed was set up to fail.

The effects are good and the Bebop plus Swordfish are very well realized. The action is fairly well choreographed. The sets outside the ship are where Netflix got cheap. The rewrote things to reuse several locations a lot, such as the bar. The same junkyard set stands in for an assortment of locations and seems to pop up every episode, minimally redressed and shot from different angles.

The writing is where Netflix deviated from the anime most substantially. The plots of some episodes are almost totally unrecognizable, and generally do not compare well to the anime. The writers chose to flesh out and make explicit more of the syndicate backstory, with far more of Spike, Viscious, and Julia's past shown. The show becomes more interesting because of this. If they'd done a more faithful remake there'd have been less reason to watch the show. I'd have preferred that Ein's treatment was just a little more faithful though. Poor dog got screwed.

If you're a fan of the anime, lower your expectations, expect something a little different, and you may enjoy the Netflix series. I'd watch Season 2 even knowing it would be one of Netflix's usual half-efforts with a greatly reduced budget. It's not the anime but, if you like the genre, it's worth watching.

Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#49

So many are trashing the live action that I'd like to offer my opinion. I enjoyed it for what it was, a reimagining. Vicious' actor was terrible but he picked up towards the end. John Cho did a good nod to Spike, Mustafa Shakir killed it as Jet, and Daniella Pineda was decent as Faye. What absolutely caught my attention was the production quality of the sets though out the show. Each shot felt heavily inspired by the…

I enjoyed it very much. I feel that people create high expectations just to be ensure they’ll be disappointed.

A scene for scene live reenactment would’ve been boring.

Just like that Halo show. You can switch things up a bit and do great.

Re: Designing the Characters of 'Cowboy Bebop'

#50

So many are trashing the live action that I'd like to offer my opinion. I enjoyed it for what it was, a reimagining. Vicious' actor was terrible but he picked up towards the end. John Cho did a good nod to Spike, Mustafa Shakir killed it as Jet, and Daniella Pineda was decent as Faye. What absolutely caught my attention was the production quality of the sets though out the show. Each shot felt heavily inspired by the…

To be honest the set design was stellar. I also enjoyed the way it was narrated given that this comes from an animated series. You could still feel the roots, but they really fleshed out that universe in a good way.
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