The case against CS master’s degrees • Hacker News Board

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#61

Post by sirmoveon » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:22 PM UTC

alistairSH wrote: post #55

sirmoveon wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Academia is running out of ways to convince people in that trap. Evolve already. I believe academia as we know it, is in stiff decline and the problems in CS are exarcerbated because of the faster reality of software. Any degree, by the time you have it, might be deprecated or eroded to the point is pointless. If academia doesn't accelerate the pace between education/application, only wealthy people that can afford a…

Any degree, by the time you have it, might be deprecated or eroded to the point is pointless. In what way is a Masters in Comp Sci going to be deprecated or pointless in the 1-2 years it takes to earn it?

Assume quantum computers become mainstream or any other technological evolution? crazy to imagine I know, but that has been the tendency.

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#62

Post by kevin335200 » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:23 PM UTC

kache_ wrote: post #22

I was about to write a blog post against CS masters degrees. I'm going through a pretty ambitious gauntlet autodidact process. Some background: I already have a CS undergrad degree. - I've found all the online courses I would ever need, alongside high quality video courses (MIT, standford, 3b1b) + books - A masters costs money & too much time (my time is better spent than getting an application together) (Opportunity…

I'm still struggling to graduate from undergrad, due to Corona this is my 10th semester.

I spent more than two years for mathematical analysis as well as linear algebra, because the professor in charge of the course was different every year, I had to re-identify the symbols used by the professor, otherwise I would have had a hard time understanding the questions in the assignments and exams.

I also know that there are many quality online resources such as 3b1b or MIT linalg, but I don't have enough time to watch them during the semester, because I'm already tired of dealing with the deadline of my weekly assignments. In particular, I often encounter situations where I have to do the work of two people by myself, because homework partner is unreachable or withdraw from the course, and I cannot find a new partner.

In a sense these are very contradictory.

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#63

Post by markshead » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:27 PM UTC

A decade ago Harvard Extension School's ALM in Software Engineering was a good match for what I was looking for as a self taught programmer with a Bachelor's and Master's degree in another field. There was a good blend of computer science fundamentals along with classes in modern (but not necessarily trendy) technologies. At the time it was also fairly inexpensive relative to other comparable options.

Programs vary widely, but if you can find one with a degree plan that aligns well with your goals it can be valuable. While there are definitely ways to learn everything on your own, I've found the credential helpful as a foot note to a track record demonstrating skills.

My biggest recommendation would be to work on a Master's degree part time in order to be able to do "real" work while studying. A Master's degree with 4 years of real world software engineering experience is going to be so much more valuable than a Master's degree from two years of just focusing on school.

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#64

Post by dwrodri » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:29 PM UTC

f17 wrote: post #42

distrill wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most of the eng on my team have masters degrees, and we have standups. this is common where i work and i assume other faang

You should aim for a research environment where you don't have to justify your existence to some "product manager" every 24 hours. Take it from me as an old person: if you work in stupid environments in stupid ways on stupid stuff... what happens is exactly what you'd think would happen.

I agree with the sentiment that justifying your existence every 24 hours isn't an effective use of anyone's time. Perhaps "standup" wasn't the right word. But in general, verbal communication/meetings/etc. was the gist.

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#65

Post by dijit » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:30 PM UTC

lmm wrote: post #43

f17 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's making effective use of your time in standups. If you have an advanced degree and your job is making you do standups, you should get another job.

Standups are the worst way of doing status updates except for all the others. For me an environment without standups is at least a yellow flag.

I used to have a bot that asked people every day if they needed help, then ask who they needed help from and what they were blocked with.

That adds just enough push to force people into asking for help.

If you’re using a standup as anything other than a pulse on making sure progress is possible. You failed.

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#66

Post by harrisonjackson » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:30 PM UTC

Higher education is not designed to churn out 10x engineers.

My MS in comp-sci was super rewarding. I loved my classes, my advisors and professors, and it was great to be around students with similar interests and academic experience. I found it easier than undergrad because all of the classes were things I was interested in and better at - compared to many of the liberal arts requirements for my undergrad.

The credentials DID enable me to teach as an adjunct professor which was also great and helped more for my current role than actually taking classes. I recommend teaching to anyone that has even halfway considered it. If not at a university then still go to local meetups and clubs and participate as a speaker.

No one ever made the guarantee that it would make me a better employee or founder but it did get me an immediate pay bump from the company I was at when I completed it and does open doors when roles have it as a requirement.

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#67

Post by SomaticPirate » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:30 PM UTC

sahila wrote: post #10

This post seems light on any actual data between the difference on individuals who have a CS masters and not, and instead argues against getting one on a few aux points: * Opportunity cost * two tweets of HM saying they don't find it useful * cs masters aren't geared towards non-cs college grad students * professors don't know how to handle online teaching * programs are cash cows (mentioning two non-top-cs programs)…

What I found quite interesting were that these programs are both lower cost than the program the author was selling. Georgia Tech and UT Austin are both recognizable names as well.

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#68

Post by al2o3cr » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:34 PM UTC

hiram112 wrote: post #13

Maybe 10 years ago I would have been impressed with any candidate with a masters from a legit CS department. However, in the last 5 years I've worked with numerous engineers with masters from both "prestigious" universities and also the typical "cash-cow" degrees that are so common today. One of my previous devs had a masters from a "public-ivy" in computer science, and he honestly was not qualified for anything more…

TL;DR "don't get an MS because OP is a racist"

GFY, OP

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#69

Post by adam_arthur » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:34 PM UTC

Degrees in general should be given less focus.

I'd say tech has already reached this point... I barely check or care about a candidate's degree.

I do take note if it's a highly reputed CS school, otherwise I treat them as interchangeable. I'm never going to hold lack of a degree against a candidate though, if they impress in an interview

Re: The case against CS master’s degrees

#70

Post by mbil » Fri, Jul 15, 2022, 11:35 PM UTC

blamazon wrote: post #8

I think it should be noted that the Georgia Tech Online Master's in Computer Science (known as OMSCS) mentioned in the article costs about 7,000 USD, all-in for a 5-semester program. [1] This seems to me an amazing bargain for a Master's degree from a respected institution in the USA. [1] https://omscs.gatech.edu/prospective-students/faq

The article's argument against programs like OMSCS is that the only feedback is from teaching assistants. This claim is not true. There is (a) automated grading of programming assignments, so your program runs against unseen test cases, (b) informal feedback from TAs and other students on Slack and other unofficial channels, (c) formal feedback from other students as part of grades in certain classes and group projects, and (d) feedback from professors to student questions during video office hours (in some courses).

Yes, lots of assignment and exam feedback does come from TAs, but it is comprehensive and valuable. The TAs are well versed in the course material and relay information and questions from and to the professors. I completed the program and at no point did I feel like I was receiving too little feedback on my work.