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Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

coindesk.com

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Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#291

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

Nursie wrote: post #285
aaaaaaaaata wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a comment written, I'll leave it at this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10966165/Jerome-Pow... Your faith is misplaced.

When I claim that anyone has perfect knowledge… I still won’t be interested in what it says in a Daily Mail article.

DailyMail is like Wikipedia — a great first spot to spin off and read a dozen sources you probably haven't seen yet. All linked and just waiting for you.

I wish you luck on your reading-less journey through this topic.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#292

Post by tim333 »

bluelightning2k wrote: post #2

If I read it correctly it's more like a 1.8 bn hole. They are counting 600m of their own token, which already had only 170m or whatever of market cap, which presumably now is absolutely worthless. I don't mean worthless in a conceptual sense like all crypto, but this specific brand of made up money is based on the trust of a bankrupt lender. Nobody is buying that and counting it as 600m of asset is absurd. It's like…

I'm short CEL token and it's taking it's time to collapse but I agree with you there's not much value there. (You can short on FTX futures in case anyone is inspired - not investment advice).

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#293

Post by tim333 »

sushid wrote: post #288
bluelightning2k wrote: post #2

If I read it correctly it's more like a 1.8 bn hole. They are counting 600m of their own token, which already had only 170m or whatever of market cap, which presumably now is absolutely worthless. I don't mean worthless in a conceptual sense like all crypto, but this specific brand of made up money is based on the trust of a bankrupt lender. Nobody is buying that and counting it as 600m of asset is absurd. It's like…

It's crazy to think this is all because of Terra. Terra crashed, tanking the entire crypto sector -> 3AC defaults as they lost $$$$ on Luna -> Celsius, who already had a dubious "diversification" strategy, emerges as a big bagholder.

A house of cards collapses with one card first.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#294

Post by tim333 »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #290
SilasX wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting but I don’t see the relevance here? LUNA has fallen by enough that it’s a rounding error against assets. CEL (the Celsius token) has not.

I've been shorting it. The markets don't have to make sense right away, but eventually they do. There's alot of corruption involved first. The old mantra of the market can stay irratiional longer than you can stay solvent is true only if you make a big bet. Make small bets that you believe in. For instance, shorting LUNA's stable coin once it slightly deppegged was a smart financial decision. Since it could only 'reP…

Also short - the insiders have probably sold a lot of CEL for real US$ and are now in a position to buy some CEL to prop the price up. But eventually it's probably going down.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#295

Post by remram »

bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #283
remram wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only 3% of hardware owned by miners and dedicated to mining is put towards Bitcoin, doesn't that make it super-likely that a 50% attack will happen any day? Bitcoin is still "mainstream" (within crypto) and easy to trade so a double-spend could be very lucrative? The whole security of proof-of-work depends on "you can't beat the network", but when such a small fraction of available hardware is left in that particu…

What you're missing is: 1) newer generations of bitcoin mining hardware are orders of magnitude more efficient so 3% of hardware isn't 3% of total SHA 256 computational capacity 2) 3% of hardware owned by miners is probably a GPU number. Eth is mined by GPUs, not ASICs. Hope this helps!

So you're saying there's not that much mining power that could "switch over" to Bitcoin or ETH, because hardware is optimized for a specific network and would lose significant efficiency if switched to a different network?

That makes sense to me thanks!

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#296

Post by trixie_ »

Nursie wrote: post #236
trixie_ wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty simple, all the Bitcoin 'manipulation' you see is simply buying/selling open market coins. Not selling massive quantities of newly minted coins. The government on the other and has minted and spent trillions of dollars in stimulus which has resulted in permanent inflation. The point is, Bitcoin will bounce back, the dollar will not.

> It's pretty simple, all the Bitcoin 'manipulation' you see is simply buying/selling open market coins. LOL. And every tether is backed by a US Dollar in a bank account, right? Nobody could possibly (say) fake buy pressure to put the prices up? > The point is, Bitcoin will bounce back, the dollar will not. What point? For what purpose will bitcoin "bounce back" that the dollar will not? As the dollar is not an inves…

Wrong - Savings accounts, treasury bills, and CDs are all ways to invest dollars and make returns in kind.

The dollar itself though will not appreciate, it will continue to deflate due to unstoppable money printing.

Bitcoin doesn't have this problem, so you can hold it and long term there is a good chance it will appreciate. Again, the dollar has zero chance.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#297

Post by trixie_ »

FabHK wrote: post #246
trixie_ wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many theories about everything. Sorry the ones you bought into didn’t work out. Most of us aren’t surprised that when the dollar is manipulated that other asset classes’ dollar values change as well.

The notion that the volatility of crypto currencies are due to the value of the dollar being manipulated (rather than the "value" of the crypto) is absurd. You can trivially compare the value of a dollar to a basket of currencies (e.g. the U.S. Dollar Index/Dixie), or a basket of goods (like the consumer price index), and it is fairly stable, and definitely not as wild as the gyrations of crypto prices.

Just as companies like Celsius offered a high interest rate on Bitcoin, and lots of people moved their money into Bitcoin; the government can do the same by changing interest rates which incentivize people to move their money to/from dollars.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#298

Post by trixie_ »

aaaaaaaaata wrote: post #289
tsimionescu wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much doubt that people who have bought BTC at $60k, or the people cashing out of USDT while they still can, will want (or be able to) bring their money back into this crazy ecosystem. Especially so as the price of energy increases and global warming becomes ever more apparent, keeping many afraid of investing in such energy wasteful endeavors.

Investors can learn. USDT is no longer trusted — but still swapped around due to now-legacy exchanges denominating in it. Your other points are not true for many cryptocurrencies, and for the ones it is, there are plenty of players who don't hold your concerns — right, wrong, or indifferent, they exist.

You say it's not trusted and yet the most volume in crypto (around 46 billion) is being traded every day it. Are you sure you're not just in your own thought bubble?

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#299

Post by tim333 »

pxmpxm wrote: post #271
vkou wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's wonderful. But what are all these loans used for? Arbitrage? Trading other coins around? It's turtles all the way down - there's nothing that generates value at the bottom.

I've yet to have success explaining that very ex nihilo problem to crypto people* - even if you build out all of the last 100 years worth of financial system innovation, at the very bottom all it's doing is very efficient price discovery of people's Pogs collection. It will all fold as such. * anecdotal, but there seems to a strong inverse correlation between crypto enthusiasm and education in economics or finance. M…

US dollars are bits of paper you can exchange for stuff based on people's perception of their value.

Cryptocurrency is virtual bits of paper that you can exchange for stuff based on people's perception of their value.

There are some similarities there.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#300

Post by tim333 »

tsimionescu wrote: post #230
vkou wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Celsius seems to have been either a ponzi scheme, or a group of morons doing dumb speculative investment on margin, or (most likely) both, but I'd like to point out that MakerDAO is down 70% YTD, Aave is down 60%, Uniswap is down 60%, etc, etc. You'd have been better off just buying bitcoin on margin (Since BTC is only down 53% YTD). The point of this post is that you can't make something out of nothing. None of thes…

> You'd have been better off just buying bitcoin on margin (Since BTC is only down 53% YTD). It's also funny to note that you'd have been better off just buying Turkish Lyra, which is "only" down ~29%. Most fiats, at least in Europe, are down waaaaaay less than that, of course. So much for crypto as a store of value.

Yeah if you'd put $1000 into bitcoin five years ago, at current prices you'd only have $10,000 left. So much worse than leaving it in the bank.
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