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A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

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21–30 of 76 posts

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#21
post #15
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve heard this repeatedly, is there any proof doctors used to be useless? Why didn’t they work other jobs? Were they simply con artists?

In Europe, traditionally the local barber was also the surgeon.

And for long time today's pinacle of the medical profession (if you go TV drama series), surgeons, were not even considered doctors to begin with.

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#22
post #18

Nice piece. The guy's name is Georg Friedrich Händel, not Handel. Even if you don't have that letter on your keyboard, you can still find ways to enter it: https://www.confidentgerman.com/how-to-write-umlaut-a-u-o-s-...

No post body was provided.

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't disagree that medicine has come a long way but I'm going to say that this is a giant disservice to some very great doctors in history. My favorite example is John Bradmore, who saved the life of King Henry V after he was shot in the fucking head with an arrow. Not only was John Bradmore a surgeon, he was also something of metalworker (and in fact, was arrested for making counterfeit coins; he had to be pulled…

You don't seem to be truly in disagreement with OP, you're just using being more charitable in your description and interpretation of events.

A doctor whose patient lives on 19 years after removing an arrow from his head does not sound terrible at all, yet that doctor preceded gp's cutoff date by centuries.

I'd say that's sufficiently clear disagreement.

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#24

This is a bit unfair, all doctors were fucking terrible before the late 19th century, and lowered the lifespan of everyone they touched. They also seemed to prescribe mercury for everything. The only rational use for a doctor back then was if you needed emergency surgery because you were going to die very soon. It was a situation that they could only make better. The problem, I guess, is that the confidence and autho…

Lest we forget, for surgeries & blood letting with a more positive outcome, the comon men went to ask the barber (thus the blood stained rotating poles). Doctors were really something only nobility could employ.

in my city, there has been a centures old tradition of old greek medicine which is actually practices still today in small cases. the barber is interesting because our physicians were doctors of greek medicine while the surgeons were called literally "barbers" or "naevid" in kashmiri. these were the two types of medical professionals until modern medicine was brought by christian missionaries around 200 years ago.

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#25
post #19
post #18

Nice piece. The guy's name is Georg Friedrich Händel, not Handel. Even if you don't have that letter on your keyboard, you can still find ways to enter it: https://www.confidentgerman.com/how-to-write-umlaut-a-u-o-s-...

Or just spell it Haendel. Though I've found that's a losing battle with the English world.

Then you have an ambiguity between names where the Umlaut is replaced with "ae"/"oe"/"ue" (Haendel) and names that are actually written with "ae"/"oe"/"ue" (Goethe)...

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#26
post #18

Nice piece. The guy's name is Georg Friedrich Händel, not Handel. Even if you don't have that letter on your keyboard, you can still find ways to enter it: https://www.confidentgerman.com/how-to-write-umlaut-a-u-o-s-...

Handel became a subject of Britain in 1727 by an act of parliament[1]. The text of the act itself[2] clearly referred to him as "George Frederic Handel" with no umlauts. Considering he spent the rest of his life in Britain as a naturalised British citizen there's little reason on insisting to use the umlaut for his name.

[1] https://archives.parliament.uk/collections/getrecord/GB61_HL...

[2] https://digitalarchive.parliament.uk/HL/PO/PB/1/1726/13G1n3

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the first surgeons to break this trend was Robert Liston, who practiced in the early/mid 19th century and was renowned for his speed and results. It definitely seems to me that they were simply unfortunate to be living in the time they were - I’m not sure there were many skilled enough in ocular surgery at that time to have actually aided in their respective recoveries.

This was the same guy, by the way, who managed to have a surgery with a 300% mortality rate[1]. Sometimes speed is not everything. [1] https://history101.com/the-surgery-300-death-rate

He himself recognized when circumstances changed such that speed was less important.

http://www.grandroundsjournal.com/articles/gr049006

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#28
post #13

Quote from the article: "Dr. Taylor’s standard procedure included administering laxatives and bloodletting from the patient. In addition, Taylor used the blood from slaughtered pigeons as eye drops, and often applied a baked apple to the eye with a bandage. Adding to the abuse, he charged large sums for his procedures—especially if he judged that the patient was wealthy. Bach survived a few weeks after the second pro…

You have to remember that's pretty much par for the course for that age. One classic example is the "care" that was administered to George Washington, which likely also hastened his demise:

"Doctors then arrived and bled him four more times over the next eight hours, with a total blood loss of 40 percent. Washington also gargled with a mixture of molasses, vinegar and butter; he inhaled a steam of vinegar and hot water; and his throat also was swabbed with a salve and a preparation of dried beetles. An enema was also used."

(from https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/the-mysterious-death-of-...)

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#29
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I won't disagree that medicine has come a long way but I'm going to say that this is a giant disservice to some very great doctors in history. My favorite example is John Bradmore, who saved the life of King Henry V after he was shot in the fucking head with an arrow. Not only was John Bradmore a surgeon, he was also something of metalworker (and in fact, was arrested for making counterfeit coins; he had to be pulled…

Here is an image of the tool: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EyiqN6UXMAAZbrM?format=jpg&name=... I must admit it's pretty clever.

Not only that, but crucially (quote from Wikipedia): "Over a period of several days, John Bradmore, the royal physician, treated the wound with honey to act as an antiseptic, crafted a tool to screw into the embedded arrowhead (bodkin point) and thus extract it without doing further damage, and flushed the wound with alcohol."

Despite the clever tool, if the wound had gotten infected, the then-prince would have probably died. So the knowledge of what to use to disinfect wounds already existed, but apparently wasn't undisputed until much later...

Re: A doctor who treated Bach and Handel with disastrous results

#30
post #23
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't seem to be truly in disagreement with OP, you're just using being more charitable in your description and interpretation of events.

A doctor whose patient lives on 19 years after removing an arrow from his head does not sound terrible at all, yet that doctor preceded gp's cutoff date by centuries. I'd say that's sufficiently clear disagreement.

Also, apparently he died of entirely different causes (weakened by disentery and possible heatstroke).
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