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Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

technollama.co.uk

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Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#131

Post by whatisweb3 »

xnorswap wrote: post #12
lucideer wrote: post #5

Bitcoin is absolute garbage and in theory any critique is good, but it bothers me that half of the points in this article aren't even internally logically consistent: > “Blockchain is just like the early internet”. No, it isn’t. Satoshi Nakamoto’s paper was published in October 2008 ... . Nothing about the original statement is predicated on the age of the tech. Even if it did, I don't see what modern tech corps have…

The internet didn't really take off until the web, but once the web was there it completely exploded from there on out. Comparing to the web makes bitcoin look pathetic scratching around for a problem for its solution over a decade later. If you're all about Second layer scaling, why not just use existing second layers like VISA? If you're transacting via a trusted second layer to provide scaling, you might as well h…

Rollups have a few properties that are distinct from a centralized VISA system. One is that they are cryptographically verifiable, with this data posted onto Ethereum. Another is that they often include permissionless traits - such as L1 smart contract calls that allow users to “force” transactions from L1 to L2 and back even if the centralized sequencer is trying to censor or block the user’s transaction. In this way, you can always withdraw from a rollup L2 back to Ethereum just by signing with your key.

This goes in hand with forkability - lots of rollups are open source - and composability. You can withdraw your L2 tokens back to L1, and put them in another rollup. If VISA or PayPal blocks your account, you are stuck.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#132

Post by whatisweb3 »

drdrek wrote: post #62

Saddest thing about Crypto even more than the energy cost is the human minds it consumed. I heard people saying that Crypto is what bright graduate students want to focus on and that just too bad. If you want to finance the un-financed or create decentralized finance go into fintech, crypto is just a bad implementation of fintech... If you want to change the world go into Biotech or Energy tech.. the next thing to ch…

> the human minds it consumed

oh no, engineers will start to talk about cryptography, privacy preservation, zero-knowledge proofs, distributed systems, Sybil resistance, game theory - instead of talking about the next hot frontend framework. /s

Centralized exchanges may be consuming minds - like those people who have only ever interacted with crypto through buying a shitcoin on Coinbase and hoping it will go up next week, and think they have a good understanding of what crypto and the blockchain is.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#133

Post by notyourav »

dcolkitt wrote: post #47
pavlov wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wire transfers in North America are literally 40 years behind the evolution of bank transfers in EU and UK. Sending money in Europe is free and increasingly often instantaneous 24/7. It will be very difficult for crypto to reach the level of convenience available on unified infrastructure created through sensible regulation. Lacking that, maybe Americans will have to keep settling for all these clunky, incompatible i…

But that's the point, crypto is a coordination mechanism that in most cases serves as an alternative when you don't have effective and trustworthy centralized institutions. It's pretty clear that (in this case) European financial regulators did a good job coordinating an effective and efficient electronic money transmission system. But the whole world is not Sweden. Even in America, which is relatively first world wi…

I’m currently in Turkey. I can transfer funds from any bank account to another in about 1 sec., for a very low or no fee, 7/24. I can even withdraw money from an ATM w/o a card just by scanning a QR code from banks app. All merchants have adapted contactless visa etc.. payments. I honestly don’t see how crypto has a sliver of chance as payment alternative.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#134

Post by p4bl0 »

tornato7 wrote: post #124
p4bl0 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing a blockchain can do is a cryptocurrency. The cryptocurrency is the only application that works because transactions are performative writings on the blockchain: they define truth. Once it is written on a blockchain that Alice has transferred X tokens to Bob, it instantly becomes a fact by definition, so you can trust what is written on the blockchain. In any other application, what's written on the blo…

Let’s forget any bridges to physical assets for a minute; cryptocurrencies, or more broadly scarce digital assets, have an unfathomably large TAM. More and more of our lives are being spent online instead of dealing with real world assets, giving increasing value to the GDP of digital assets over time. First, the entire financial system can and will be made digital, making every dollar you deal with every day a digit…

TAM? Maybe define uncommon acronym before using them. I cannot even find its expansion using Google.

> First, the entire financial system can and will be made digital

It already is.

> making every dollar you deal with every day a digital asset that can falls under blockchain

That is a very bold statement.

> Then, you have all online goods: (…)

Those all suffer from the exact same problem than physical assets, they exist and have a purpose outside the blockchain. You already have the oracle problem.

> credibly neutral and publicly interoperable accounting

This is again a very bold statement and facts disagree with you. Blockchains are not interoperable with one another and cannot be, for starters.

> which could one day be 50% of the world economy

This is pure wishful speculation on your part and is based on absolutely nothing.

-----

EDIT: I found "TAM"'s expansion: total addressable market.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#135

Post by whatisweb3 »

notyourav wrote: post #133
dcolkitt wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's the point, crypto is a coordination mechanism that in most cases serves as an alternative when you don't have effective and trustworthy centralized institutions. It's pretty clear that (in this case) European financial regulators did a good job coordinating an effective and efficient electronic money transmission system. But the whole world is not Sweden. Even in America, which is relatively first world wi…

I’m currently in Turkey. I can transfer funds from any bank account to another in about 1 sec., for a very low or no fee, 7/24. I can even withdraw money from an ATM w/o a card just by scanning a QR code from banks app. All merchants have adapted contactless visa etc.. payments. I honestly don’t see how crypto has a sliver of chance as payment alternative.

What is your preferred way to transfer funds that can be received instantly in Canada, US, South America, UK and Europe?

Transferability is a basic primitive of crypto but not the only feature. Others like decentralized escrow and multi-signatory wallets achieve new functionality that is non trivial in traditional banking system.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#136

Post by nprateem »

Wertigoyr wrote: post #76
nprateem wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particl has created a decentralised anonymous marketplace that uses a smart contract to provide escrow between two untrusted parties. There are bound to be other possible applications. Writing off an entire new tech because you can't think of them is just narrow minded and silly.

But that's the point he made. It's not Blockchain it's Blockchain + escrow. Escrow needs a third party. It destroys all your Blockchain advantage.

Escrow is handled on the blockchain with a smart contract. There are no trusted third parties.

https://academy.particl.io/en/latest/in-depth/indepth_escrow...

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#137

Post by ETH_start »

>>Second layers act as a reminder that the original networks cannot scale, and need a second network on top of the network to operate. This is an admission of failure.

That is not argument against cryptocurrency. It is just a recognition that the first implementations had shortcomings that could be improved upon.

The internet did not emerge in the 1970s/80s with the functionality it has now.

>>Nope, I would love for a decentralized system to emerge, I’ve been an advocate of decentralization for 20 years. But crypto ain’t it. It’s highly centralized, and it has a propensity for inequality that makes capitalist economies look like anarchist communes.

I don't buy it. A truly decentralized system cannot be censored. It enables exactly the kind of free-for-all that the author criticized it for back in 2011. [1]

The author wants centralized regulatory gatekeeping and control, without calling it that. This is the case with most of the avowed opponents (as opposed to mere skeptics) of cryptocurrency.

[1] https://twitter.com/technollama/status/83187937738625024

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#138

Post by [deleted] »

anony23 wrote: post #101
gaspard234 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll take you up on that challenge. I can open open up my Wells Fargo app and initiate a wire transfer within 5 minutes. In fact, I sent $1000 to a home contractors bank account earlier this week for no fee. And yes, WF sent me email updates of the status. I will concede it took 1 business day though. How do I send USDC within 5 mins? I would have to 1) Open an account on a crypto exchange app 2) Go through the KYC p…

If you count the time for opening an exchange account and doing kyc, you should do the same when you talk about your bank. You only have to open the exchange account once just like you do for your bank. After that it's definitely cheaper and faster to send crypto. Whether or not it's as secure depends on what bank we are comparing to.

[deleted]

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#139

Post by JumpCrisscross »

beernet wrote: post #125
gota wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. The real measure is not % of loss from top-value, rather it should be # of people that both don't understand the technology & have lost money speculating on it (i.e. how many people bought into hype and got burned) There's a finite amount of people to buy-in next cycle

Is this 2018? The comments are the same. Not a crypto head but nay sayers will be nay sayers. Kinda disappointing

> Is this 2018?

Nope [1].

[1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#140

Post by CaptainZapp »

whatisweb3 wrote: post #135
notyourav wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m currently in Turkey. I can transfer funds from any bank account to another in about 1 sec., for a very low or no fee, 7/24. I can even withdraw money from an ATM w/o a card just by scanning a QR code from banks app. All merchants have adapted contactless visa etc.. payments. I honestly don’t see how crypto has a sliver of chance as payment alternative.

What is your preferred way to transfer funds that can be received instantly in Canada, US, South America, UK and Europe? Transferability is a basic primitive of crypto but not the only feature. Others like decentralized escrow and multi-signatory wallets achieve new functionality that is non trivial in traditional banking system.

> Others like decentralized escrow and multi-signatory wallets

Uhh, multi-signatory bank accounts are about as old as banking.

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