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Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

coindesk.com

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Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#81

Post by civilized »

josh2600 wrote: post #74
civilized wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently paused due to "extreme market conditions". What conditions exactly? BTC is down from all-time high, but still worth about twice as much as it was only two years ago. Ethereum is worth over 4x as much. Is a two-year average appreciation rate of 40-100% per year so witheringly horrible that the Celsius business model couldn't survive it? Did crypto have to basically 2x every year without fail for Celsius to s…

Celsius told their customers they were accruing Bitcoin and then Celsius didn’t buy the Bitcoin to deposit into their accounts, instead using the money to buy their CEL token that their ceo was dumping on exchange. Their business model was fine. What wasn’t fine was not following it. Abra, Nexo, Gemini, and lots of other companies are business as usual with the same model right now.

This is informative, but I'm not sure how illuminating it is to say that a business's business model was great, except they didn't follow it, they followed a completely different business model that was terrible? Isn't the actual business model of a business... the business model that they actually followed?

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#83

Post by nemothekid »

impulser_ wrote: post #55
sergiotapia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still waiting to see even one single useful use case for cryptocurrency and block-chain storage. It's all a grift to take money away from stupid retail investors trying to get rich quick.

There are features of cryptocurrencies that would actually be useful in today's financial services. The main one would be near instant settlement. If I make a transaction on Bitcoin, that transaction is completely settled and verified and approved over a hundred thousands times within an hour. All parties can trust that the transaction happened and everyone has their money. That's not possible in today's financial sy…

>The main one would be near instant settlement.

How is this any different than what PayPal has been offering since 1998?

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#84

Post by Peleus »

skippyboxedhero wrote: post #44
kelseyfrog wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do banks not presently trust each other? edit: Suggesting that the interbank system move to crypto on a thread about a massive failed crypto project is a huge failure on reading the room. It's like trying to convince people to buy Titanic II tickets at the funeral for the Titanic I victims or trying to sell a Model 38 to Jacqueline Kennedy on November 23, 1963.

People significantly underestimate how much cost there is at certain points in the chain. Interbank transfers are very cheap. A lot of central banks have invested heavily in payments systems too (the BoE is one, Faster is very good). But at certain other points, this technology could be very valuable. Two examples that occur to me immediately are pensions and fund administration. Obviously, Ethereum goes beyond that…

> I remember vividly opening the door to the pig pen, and it was just a sea of people, 95% just responding to very basic customer queries/doing incredibly basic computation work and costing huge amounts of money...because, of course, there is no cost pressure from "customers"...a parallel that more people understand is US healthcare admin, huge inefficiencies, pension admin is like that

How does blockchain solve this?

There are always people pushing generalized "it will be good for this" statements, yet they can never seem to give concrete examples of where blockchain would be a better solution than the current implementation.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#86

Post by pcthrowaway »

alasdair_ wrote: post #47
sergiotapia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still waiting to see even one single useful use case for cryptocurrency and block-chain storage. It's all a grift to take money away from stupid retail investors trying to get rich quick.

I used to pay to run a few TOR exit nodes located in Iceland that I didn't want tied to me because I didn't want the hassle. It was marginally easier to use bitcoin than it was to get a prepaid credit cards with cash each time. That's about it though.

I actually think there are other use cases for crypto, but this isn't one (anymore, bitcoin may have been more anonymity-preserving in the past)

Unless you mined the BTC yourself from a VPN that doesn't keep logs, or acquired it directly from someone else who didn't know you, the BTC would be traceable to you now (though it may still require coordination of multiple state-level interests which is typically reserved for very high-interest targets)

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#87

Post by impulser_ »

Peleus wrote: post #75
impulser_ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are features of cryptocurrencies that would actually be useful in today's financial services. The main one would be near instant settlement. If I make a transaction on Bitcoin, that transaction is completely settled and verified and approved over a hundred thousands times within an hour. All parties can trust that the transaction happened and everyone has their money. That's not possible in today's financial sy…

Then look at _why_ you don't have it in today's financial services. Is it because there is some technology lacking that only blockchain and cryptocurrencies can solve? No, it's because in the years of financial market experience, people realise the risks don't outweigh the rewards. Cryptocurrencies and block chain isn't solving a problem, it's just spruiking the pro's side of a pro's and con's decision.

I never said blockchain was a solution. I literally just said there are features of cryptocurrencies that are useful.

Send money across the world in minutes without haveing to pay a corporation is a useful feature that could be adopted by the US financial system.

Instant deposit money into any bank account is a useful feature.

PayPal makes billions offering this service, when it could be a feature of the financial system.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#88

Post by aaaaaaaaata »

jsemrau wrote: post #77
ufo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget about the $720M in "Mining Assets". I wouldn't be surprised if the true value were much lower than this, now that crypto prices have crashed.

This could also include GPUs, Asics, and other mining equipment which given the upcoming ETH merge should be amortized differently.

People are still mining LTC/BTC/DOGE et al, aren't they?

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#89

Post by JumpCrisscross »

impulser_ wrote: post #78
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't even have T+1 settlement in the US yet By default, no. If you’re an idiot and put yourself in a place where you need instantaneous settlement, you can get it. Hilariously, their extravagant cost was apparently too low. Post crypto, they index to crypto trading fees. These are at least quadruple their historic spreads. I don’t believe anyone but the crypto bros demand it in real markets.

You can get if the business offers it. Which they are just a loaning you their money while they wait for your money to settle in their bank account. If their was no demand, then why does PayPal, Square, and other FinTech companies make billions a year offer you to instant deposit money into your bank account lol. If the US banking system had instant settlement Venmo, Cash App and other apps wouldn't be in business be…

> they are just a loaning you their money while they wait for your money to settle in their bank account

Nope. No loans. You can demand physical settlement on stocks, end of day. Naked shorters (MMs) have to do this from time to time. It’s now more expensive because: idiots. Which suits Wall Street just fine.

> why does PayPal, Square, and other FinTech companies make billions a year offer you to instant deposit money into your bank account

They’re lending you money. No “lol” needed. (Am I misinterpreting this?)

> other apps wouldn't be in business because you could just send the money through your bank for free instead of using Mastercard or Visa

Trusted versus untrusted counterparty. I’m not wiring my hotel because I want AmEx behind me.

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