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Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

coindesk.com

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Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#71

Post by freddie_mercury »

impulser_ wrote: post #55
sergiotapia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still waiting to see even one single useful use case for cryptocurrency and block-chain storage. It's all a grift to take money away from stupid retail investors trying to get rich quick.

There are features of cryptocurrencies that would actually be useful in today's financial services. The main one would be near instant settlement. If I make a transaction on Bitcoin, that transaction is completely settled and verified and approved over a hundred thousands times within an hour. All parties can trust that the transaction happened and everyone has their money. That's not possible in today's financial sy…

I get instant settlement of cash transfers in my country. No blockchain was required.

Switching to blockchain isn't any easier than simply improving the existing system.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#72

Post by msbarnett »

mccorrinall wrote: post #16
sergiotapia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still waiting to see even one single useful use case for cryptocurrency and block-chain storage. It's all a grift to take money away from stupid retail investors trying to get rich quick.

I pay my servers at vultr.com, my domains on porkbun.com and my drugs on $market with bitcoin :)

I do all of those things with actual money.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#73

Post by game-of-throws »

msbarnett wrote: post #72
mccorrinall wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pay my servers at vultr.com, my domains on porkbun.com and my drugs on $market with bitcoin :)

I do all of those things with actual money.

If you buy drugs on the darknet with USD you're playing a dangerous game

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#74

Post by josh2600 »

civilized wrote: post #66
Barrera wrote: post #41

And yet the site apparently continues to accept deposits: https://celsius.network Business as usual. Oh yeah, check out our hello bar for that minor detail that withdrawal, swap, and transfers are "currently paused." These guys are going to prison.

Currently paused due to "extreme market conditions". What conditions exactly? BTC is down from all-time high, but still worth about twice as much as it was only two years ago. Ethereum is worth over 4x as much. Is a two-year average appreciation rate of 40-100% per year so witheringly horrible that the Celsius business model couldn't survive it? Did crypto have to basically 2x every year without fail for Celsius to s…

Celsius told their customers they were accruing Bitcoin and then Celsius didn’t buy the Bitcoin to deposit into their accounts, instead using the money to buy their CEL token that their ceo was dumping on exchange.

Their business model was fine. What wasn’t fine was not following it. Abra, Nexo, Gemini, and lots of other companies are business as usual with the same model right now.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#75

Post by Peleus »

impulser_ wrote: post #55
sergiotapia wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still waiting to see even one single useful use case for cryptocurrency and block-chain storage. It's all a grift to take money away from stupid retail investors trying to get rich quick.

There are features of cryptocurrencies that would actually be useful in today's financial services. The main one would be near instant settlement. If I make a transaction on Bitcoin, that transaction is completely settled and verified and approved over a hundred thousands times within an hour. All parties can trust that the transaction happened and everyone has their money. That's not possible in today's financial sy…

Then look at _why_ you don't have it in today's financial services. Is it because there is some technology lacking that only blockchain and cryptocurrencies can solve?

No, it's because in the years of financial market experience, people realise the risks don't outweigh the rewards.

Cryptocurrencies and block chain isn't solving a problem, it's just spruiking the pro's side of a pro's and con's decision.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#76

Post by civilized »

wmf wrote: post #70
civilized wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Currently paused due to "extreme market conditions". What conditions exactly? BTC is down from all-time high, but still worth about twice as much as it was only two years ago. Ethereum is worth over 4x as much. Is a two-year average appreciation rate of 40-100% per year so witheringly horrible that the Celsius business model couldn't survive it? Did crypto have to basically 2x every year without fail for Celsius to s…

When everybody piles in near the all-time high then wants to cash out at the bottom, the two-year return becomes irrelevant.

That depends on what you're doing. If I put my life's savings into the S&P 500 at 2x leverage in 2008, I'd be wiped out in 2009. But that would be an extremely dumb thing to do.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#77

Post by jsemrau »

ufo wrote: post #56
bluelightning2k wrote: post #2

If I read it correctly it's more like a 1.8 bn hole. They are counting 600m of their own token, which already had only 170m or whatever of market cap, which presumably now is absolutely worthless. I don't mean worthless in a conceptual sense like all crypto, but this specific brand of made up money is based on the trust of a bankrupt lender. Nobody is buying that and counting it as 600m of asset is absurd. It's like…

Don't forget about the $720M in "Mining Assets". I wouldn't be surprised if the true value were much lower than this, now that crypto prices have crashed.

This could also include GPUs, Asics, and other mining equipment which given the upcoming ETH merge should be amortized differently.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#78

Post by impulser_ »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #68
impulser_ wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are features of cryptocurrencies that would actually be useful in today's financial services. The main one would be near instant settlement. If I make a transaction on Bitcoin, that transaction is completely settled and verified and approved over a hundred thousands times within an hour. All parties can trust that the transaction happened and everyone has their money. That's not possible in today's financial sy…

> We don't even have T+1 settlement in the US yet By default, no. If you’re an idiot and put yourself in a place where you need instantaneous settlement, you can get it. Hilariously, their extravagant cost was apparently too low. Post crypto, they index to crypto trading fees. These are at least quadruple their historic spreads. I don’t believe anyone but the crypto bros demand it in real markets.

You can get if the business offers it. Which they are just a loaning you their money while they wait for your money to settle in their bank account.

If their was no demand, then why does PayPal, Square, and other FinTech companies make billions a year offer you to instant deposit money into your bank account lol.

If the US banking system had instant settlement Venmo, Cash App and other apps wouldn't be in business because you could just send the money through your bank for free instead of using Mastercard or Visa.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#79

Post by jsemrau »

Aperocky wrote: post #57
amluto wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened with Hertz during bankruptcy. And apparently it wasn’t entirely nuts: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kevindowd/2021/11/07/how-hertz-...

Hertz had actual vehicles.

And a lot of management disfunction.

Re: Celsius acknowledges $1.2B hole in balance sheet

#80

Post by titzer »

bluelightning2k wrote: post #2

If I read it correctly it's more like a 1.8 bn hole. They are counting 600m of their own token, which already had only 170m or whatever of market cap, which presumably now is absolutely worthless. I don't mean worthless in a conceptual sense like all crypto, but this specific brand of made up money is based on the trust of a bankrupt lender. Nobody is buying that and counting it as 600m of asset is absurd. It's like…

> It's like writing yourself a bunch of IOUs and claiming it gives you wealth.

I think you just described monetary policy.

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