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Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

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Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#871

Post by SilasX »

jdoliner wrote: post #822
SilasX wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t follow. The link supports the claim that interest rates should be above inflation when the latter is above target.

The implication is that because this rule is from 1992 (which I guess is considered ancient history), arguing that it should be implied here is essentially saying that central banking was solved in 1992. It's a bad argument.

But it’s a bad reply too. It just means the rule is from 1992. That gives us no way to gauge whether the rule was invalidated in the intervening times.

As I like to say, we launch spacecraft based on models of celestial mechanics from the 1680s. Doesn’t make them wrong or disaster-prone. If you replied to someone that “oh you think celestial mechanics was perfected in the 1680s?”, then a lay reader should be equally confused as to why they should doubt the person you replied to.

If you have a reason some rule is invalid, post it, FFS. Don’t just say it’s from $YEAR. And definitely don’t rely on ambiguity as a way to look smart and unquestionable.

But of course, he’s a longtime poster, so I guess he gets a free pass.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#872

Post by coryrc »

timr wrote: post #757
coryrc wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to include Newark, Yonkers, Long Island, etc if you want to compare those figures. Tokyo is 13400 sq km, NYC is 780 sq km. If I rounded Tokyo's land area to the same sig figs as I did for NYC, it would be lowered by half the total area that NYC takes up!

> You need to include Newark, Yonkers, Long Island, etc if you want to compare those figures. That's just not an accurate comparison. Live in NYC. Lived in Japan. The difference is transit. It is far easier to get to Saitama or Kawasaki or Yokohama or Chiba than it is to get to Long Island from NYC. You can do the former in an hour at rush hour. Try getting to downtown Manhattan from Bay Shore as a daily commute. You…

I understand, but that doesn't change my assertion that comparing Tokyo density to only-NYC density makes no sense, especially as an argument that there is no room for to build more. Hogwash! Half your NYC map is pure green, but even leaving that, most of the land area on that map that is housing is SFH.

The density of the NYC MSA is 1/3 that of Tokyo: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_metropolitan_area

There's plenty of room to grow up. Just because the reason we don't is shitty government organization and FPTP voting doesn't mean we can just ignore the vast swaths of low-density just outside Manhattan 's borders.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#873

Post by zormino »

deathanatos wrote: post #351
Aunche wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But rate hikes are driving higher rents This doesn't make sense to me. Rate hikes decrease spending overall, so why would rent be any different?

Demand for a place to live is much more inelastic. And rate hikes make it harder to purchase a home, by raising the cost of them. That forces out of the home-buying market those who would have bought a home at the pre-hike rate … and forces them back into the rental market. Seems to me like demand goes up. (Certainly, it makes it harder for landlords to acquire new properties, but I think corporations are going to we…

Also new mortgages and variable rate mortgages get more expensive, and landlords need to charge more to cover their costs.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#874

Post by nradov »

dcow wrote: post #865
nradov wrote: post #833

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a silly criteria. How many people really care about doing things at 3:00 AM? We're talking about a small niche of shift workers and childless young people. Las Vegas operates 24 hours a day if that's what you want.

Have you lived in or visited a world city? The feel and vibe is very different. It's why New York is called the city that never sleeps. When you get dense enough, there's always something to do and people out wanting to do it or at least wanting to serve it to you.

Yes I have visited. I don't see any advantage to that.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#875

Post by m_ke »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #683
ctvo wrote: post #390

The problem for me, as a long time NYC resident, is that there's no other place in America I want to live even with work from home as a possibility. I like mass transit. I like not owning a car. I like that the city is generally safer than the rest of America. I like that it's the center for tech on the east coast, the arts for the entire country, and finance for most of the world. I like that we generally get along…

I have a fantasy where a Robert Moses-type figure builds out super fast trains that connect Long Island, NJ, upstate New York, and effectively urbanize the entire tri-state area. New York becomes this super city where you can go from White Plains to the tip of Long Island in an hour. Housing becomes cheaper as neighborhoods that were previously impractical become feasible for New Yorkers. Car ownership drops in the o…

I’d love to see someone brave enough to marge north east jersey and lower Connecticut into NYC and connect them with proper transit, pretty much merge LIRR, Path and MTA under one NYC administered transit system, then add some high speed rail along the old train lines.

Then make all public transit free and turn half of the roads into bus, pedestrian and bike only paths.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#876

Post by periphrasis »

simonsarris wrote: post #436
ctvo wrote: post #390

The problem for me, as a long time NYC resident, is that there's no other place in America I want to live even with work from home as a possibility. I like mass transit. I like not owning a car. I like that the city is generally safer than the rest of America. I like that it's the center for tech on the east coast, the arts for the entire country, and finance for most of the world. I like that we generally get along…

> I like that the city is generally safer than the rest of America. Coming from New Hampshire: this is just fantastically untrue. NYC is about one hundred times more violent than where I live. It is so thoroughly not the same that I can usually tell when people come from cities simply based on how nervous they are. I think most people don't realize how badly it affects them, or how violent cities are versus "the rest…

One thing this thread has reminded me of is that for all the lip service conservatives pay to toughness and manly traditional gender roles, they certainly seem to live in abject terror of being the victim of a crime.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#877

Post by Kaze404 »

kriops wrote: post #297
spaniard89277 wrote: post #36

Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income, and renting to a representative distribution of tenants so to prevent guettos. Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost…

> (...) there should be heavy state intervention (...) This has been tried so many times throughout different cultures and time periods, and by different means. It will not benefit whoever is actually living on the properties, but will detract from their situation. Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt has several concrete examples of attempted interventions, and is written to give a basic intuition on why this ha…

Isn't "just build more" what we've been doing for decades, and exactly how we got into the situation we're in now?

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#878

Post by RC_ITR »

simonsarris wrote: post #436
ctvo wrote: post #390

The problem for me, as a long time NYC resident, is that there's no other place in America I want to live even with work from home as a possibility. I like mass transit. I like not owning a car. I like that the city is generally safer than the rest of America. I like that it's the center for tech on the east coast, the arts for the entire country, and finance for most of the world. I like that we generally get along…

> I like that the city is generally safer than the rest of America. Coming from New Hampshire: this is just fantastically untrue. NYC is about one hundred times more violent than where I live. It is so thoroughly not the same that I can usually tell when people come from cities simply based on how nervous they are. I think most people don't realize how badly it affects them, or how violent cities are versus "the rest…

It’s weird that “safety” in America always comes back to violent crime.

There’s hospital quality, time spent in private automobiles (one of the most dangerous things Americans do), risk of natural disaster, etc etc.

I think it’s very reflective of an anti-urban bias

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#879

Post by Baloo »

nickles wrote: post #866
Baloo wrote: post #856

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The housing in UK is in crisis because there have not been enough homes built. >So is it a problem that they aren't building more or not? If we agree that more housing needs to be built, then the proper incentives must be in place. And a proper incentive may actually be as simple as eliminating a disincentive (e.g. 4 years of environmental review prior to the project's approval). And this is a part of why it should…

> And this is a part of why it should be administered by governments and not just let loose to market forces... There's no real financial incentive to build 100,000 houses in the middle of nowhere That's exactly what the Chinese government did, only at a larger scale. It hasn't worked out well. > They actually suggested recently to offer multi-generational mortgages... That's how crazy the market is getting. I saw th…

You should have that flexibility. There should be enough housing stock that you can move to another city and not have to worry about struggling to find a place, arranging visits for them to be cancelled or leased before you can even view it. There are parts of the world where government rental housing schemes are extremely successful, it also typically caters for those that would be left with nothing if we didn't intervene with the market. Yes there are laws against discrimination, that landlord was overruled in high court. That does not stop it from happening, in many different forms - there is never ending prejudice and difficulty simply getting a home for young people, disabled, minority backgrounds, immigrants, welfare recipients. The landlords have all the power when it comes to deciding who they allow to rent, they do not have any obligation to tell you why you were refused. Even though the court says it's illegal for him not to rent to certain races, what is stopping him?

We live in a world where it is entirely feasible for every person to have good quality shelter, clean water, food and energy. For the most part, we allow market forces to control the access to goods and services. Wealth is being concentrated, property along with other vital services, are just another asset in the portfolio. It's missing humanity. We need homes, healthcare, water, food.. I think it's about time we prioritise this vs high profit, monetary gain, corporate excess and 'free markets' (they're never really free, always tipped in favour of the owners of capital).

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#880

Post by pgodzin »

m_ke wrote: post #867
pgodzin wrote: post #864

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe because Greenpoint and LIC became a lot more in-demand in those 20 years and development followed the demand?

You have that backwards. Bloomberg rezoned the queens and brooklyn waterfront for his real estate investor buddies, which gentrified the shit out of these neighborhoods and brought in a ton of people that would have never dared to cross the east river.

So they allowed housing to be built to meet the demand of living on the waterfront.
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