Live data from Hacker News

Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

theguardian.com

451–460 of 634 posts

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>viewing it a totalitarian control as human breath expeals CO2 so if the government can regulate it then there are no limits on government at all. "If the gubmit can tell multinational corps not to pull oil out of the ground, they can make me hold my breath! It produces the same molecule!" Libertarian philosophy in a nutshell.

Your post made me wonder what libertarians think about things like llcs and corporations - the legal shields they provide are a massive government subsidy.

Left-libertarians often think they shouldn't be A Thing, since they're extensions of state power and, besides, left-libertarians are more concerned with large concentrations of power per se than whether those concentrations happen to be called governments.

Your average common-on-the-Internet right-libertarian usually hand-waves away how they're somehow fine and part of the "natural" (I cannot roll my eyes hard enough, in case you couldn't tell) free market. Some of the softer right-libertarians (bleeding over into folks who'd likely style themselves "classical liberals" rather than libertarians) aren't as hard-line and rigid, so don't really have the dilemma to begin with, but they're much less vocal on the Internet, probably in part because they disagree with the average person a lot less than the former sort does, so it just doesn't come up as much.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Even car accidents... I hate when a real car accident is attributed to a drunk driver when it was not. There are plenty of wrecked cars from actual drunk driving, you don't need to lie to get an example. Some people think their intentions justify their actions, even when their actions can accurately be described as "lie" or "cheat" or "for profit" or some other dishonest thing. This may be effective in many cases,…

> Random acts of kindness DO happen, but are usually not captured on video. Indeed. In fact, when the act is intentionally captured on video by its performer, not only is it already very debatable that it is an act of "kindness"... but it is also obviously NOT "random"! (For the colloquial meaning of "random" of course)

> when the act is intentionally captured on video by its performer, not only is it already very debatable that it is an act of "kindness"... but it is also obviously NOT "random"!

I was about to propose to my girlfriend and was setting up my DSLR on a tripod to take photos via IR remote (she thought we were just going to take photos of us at sunset).

Then a guy came walking by and offered to take the photos for us. I demurred, but he said he had the exact same camera and knew how to use it. So I quietly told him what was about to go down, and he took a bunch of great photos of our engagement.

For at least a year after, my wife didn't believe that he wasn't a plant!

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#453
post #217

I sort of feel compelled to quote the Bible here, though I'm not religious. "So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do ... to be honored by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in s…

> I sort of feel compelled to quote the Bible here, though I'm not religious. There's a lot of ancient wisdom that has stood the test of time in there, from which many could benefit. As we move away from the idea of a man-like god running the universe, I hope we still keep the good bits.

I grew up roundly rejecting religious teachings as a matter of course, mocking it on the grounds of fanciful belief in God/Hell/etc. As I've gotten older and started thinking more about how I want to live my life I've looked at the bible with new eyes, and no longer see any necessity to believe in god or the afterlife to realize the immense wisdom and beauty in Jesus's teachings.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#454
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like the video is for the creator and the audience… and that’s it. There seems to be little interest in the actual person given the flowers other than as a prop.

Even The Guardian couldn't help but link to the TikTok channel, point out when it was posted so you could find it easier, and post a screenshot of the video with the woman in it even though it's an article all about how she didn't want to be on camera. They're going to get tons of views!

The Guardian sold out to corporate interests a long time ago.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#455

The reason this act breaks a moral boundary is that it subverts a principle of "ends" [1]. A genuine random act of kindness cannot occur if it's being filmed. Filming the act turns it into a virtue display. It also turns the subject into an object of utility, a means and not and end in themself. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Ends

Social Media has largely exposed the levels of narcissism embedded in a large number of human's psychological makeup , Selfies, clout chasing and virtue signalling are ever increasing forms of narcissism that really has destroyed the internet IMO

> Social Media has largely exposed the levels of narcissism embedded in a large number of human's psychological makeup

I don't think this is entirely fair to humanity. I think social media encourages and incentivizes this behavior. Was it there before? Sure. But social media hasn't just exposed it, it has also optimized for it.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#456
post #75

The video itself was quite off-putting when I first saw it. He didn't even just kindly offer her flowers. He _tricked_ her into taking them by making it sound like he just wanted her to hold them for him. She was actually being kind to him by doing him a favor, and then he basically ran away and stuck her with them. That's not kind at all, it's pushy and exploitative. As someone who doesn't usually like to accept gif…

Obviously the most exploitative thing is doing it for the clicks, but none of this has ever felt "sweet" or "positive" or whatever other guise they're presented as. I wonder who finds this type of content genuinely appealing?

[deleted]

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#457
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how these videos say they're intended to spread love and encourage random acts of kindness, but the actual effect of them is decreasing trust in strangers (that they might be filming us for their tiktok). This makes me not trust anyone that goes up to me in the street.

So much of the content I see now on TikTok and other apps is totally staged, and quite often poorly staged at that. It would be interesting to know who funds the production of many of the videos, because there's obviously an advertising scheme or some sort of moneymaking ploy behind a lot of it. I think things really took off with the people who were making "gold-digger" videos, where a guy tries to talk to a girl an…

I think the most disturbing variant is where they put animals in dangerous situations (sometimes hurting them) and then "rescue" them.

There's a whole industry of this shit.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#458
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kants moral philosophy (the categorical imperative) is deontological, which means it is based on the action (and only the action) itself. Intent and Outcome are important in other moral philosophies, but for Kant these were hypothetical imperatives: Nothing more than mere whishes, nothing concrete. For him, moral philosophy should be based on concrete, testable tenets, which have to be unconditionally true (categoric…

Thank you for clearing up my misconceptions. Is it fair to say Kants view mostly works when there is a universal answer that is not context dependent? I know this is a bit of an ad hominem and an aside, but is it true that Kant was a loner? Do you think his idealist worldviews contributed to that, I.e., his moral philosophy is more fit for theoretical and academic discussions rather than applied in practice, in the s…

The categorical imperative (kinda) ALWAYS works for a single action, thats the real power of it. No matter the situation, applying Kants reasoning to a possible action will always give you a definite answer - Moral or Immoral.

It is actually rather easy to apply: If you can generalize an action (i.e. "what would happen if everyone does this in this situation") without contradiction, then it is moral. Otherwise not.

What it cannot do is weigh two actions against each other: Lying is immoral, but so is treason. You might be forced to break one principle to protect the other.

Kant is kinda famous for taking extremist views in these circumstances. He regarded lying as the worst kind of immorality. Which, with a bit of hindsight, leads to the questionable stance, that it is worse to lie to a nazi, than to protect and harbor a jew from death. Obviously not a popular stance nowadays, and probably not even back then...

But you can fix that by applying a different 'order' to the individual principles. Modern kantian theories heavily focus on these parts.

I'm not sure if you can dismiss context entirely when thinking about a single action, I have the feeling that not. But on the other hand, I cannot think of an example where context does matter, but does not simultaniously pit two moral principles against each other... The answer to your first question kinda hinges on that...

About the loner part: Kant was among the most influentual figures in the european enlightenment movement, he wrote the very influental pamphlet "What is the enlightenment", and he regularly held lectures at various universities. I dunno if he was an introvert, but he certainly didn't avoid society or discussions.

He was a racist, though. Even made money through questionable lectures on the inferiority of non white races. Not that uncommon (and widely accepted) in Germany at that time, but yeah... Great intellectual, an actual liberal in many ways, but still a shitty asshole in many others...

And for academic vs practical: Another name for the whole branch of moral philosophy is "practical philosophy". It is not possible to make an actual useful distinction between academic and practical application of morality. The questions are the same, the reasoning is the same. Only difference is if you have to actually go through with your choices, which makes it emotionally different, but not logically...

I'm a bit of a Kant fan, but here are some telling quotes from wikipedia: (Not all about his moral phlosophy thoguh) "Kant's influence on Western thought has been profound." "Kant is credited with having innovated the way philosophical inquiry has been carried at least up to the early nineteenth century" "Arthur Schopenhauer was strongly influenced by Kant's transcendental idealism." "With his Perpetual Peace: A Philosophical Sketch, Kant is considered to have foreshadowed many of the ideas that have come to form the democratic peace theory, one of the main controversies in political science" "Jürgen Habermas and John Rawls are two significant political and moral philosophers whose work is strongly influenced by Kant's moral philosophy." "Kant's influence also has extended to the social, behavioral, and physical sciences, as in the sociology of Max Weber, the psychology of Jean Piaget and Carl Gustav Jung,[199][200] and the linguistics of Noam Chomsky." "Kant's work on mathematics and synthetic a priori knowledge is also cited by theoretical physicist Albert Einstein as an early influence on his intellectual development, but which he later criticised heavily and rejected."

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#459
post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how you're complaining about so much content being staged. I much prefer that this type of content is staged. The alternative appears to be harassing random strangers like the case in the article. With staged content the only victim is the duped audience who can always just not watch TikTok.

Well I think his issue is that the staged stuff(that pretends it isn't staged) leads to people trying to copycat the format and do it unstaged

Maybe but most people complain about staged stuff for not being "real."
Post reply on HN