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Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

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Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#71

Post by taylodl »

I really don't like the strategy of super cooling in the morning. I prefer fresh air instead. I throw the windows open wide and let all the cool morning air in. By midmorning I'm usually starting to close those windows because the outside air is getting warmer. By mid afternoon I'm closing all those windows and turning on the AC and setting the temperature to 1 degree (Fahrenheit) cooler than the current room temperature. I've found that temperature is in the range of 78-84 degrees depending on humidity. Then the AC kicks on and removes all the humidity and makes things comfortable. In the evening when it starts cooling back down again I turn off the AC and open the windows back up.

I'm paying 50% less in cooling costs than those cooling an equivalent space as mine and I'm getting plenty of fresh air and I'm still working comfortably. Heck, today is one of those days where the highs are going to be in the low 80's and I probably won't even need to turn on my AC. In fact it's already at the high for today, 84, and it's 76 inside my house and I have a nice breeze coming through the window.

Just another way how working from home is saving me money and improving the environment.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#73

Post by yellow_lead »

pdonis wrote: post #51
yellow_lead wrote: post #4

Smart thermometer manufacturers could solve this fairly easily by randomizing the start time. Instead of them all turning on the heater in the winter at 6am, they could i.e pick a random start time between 5:30-6:30 by default.

That just means the load peak is now at 6:30, when all the heaters are turned on.

It would be a smaller usage at 6:30, and not necessarily a peak, since usage would probably surpass it right after

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#74

Post by sokoloff »

BeetleB wrote: post #61
evanreichard wrote: post #11

Ecobee has eco+ which has "Community Energy Savings" [0]. It was just way too intrusive. It seemed to be a reactive system vs proactive. Technology Connections goes into this more [1], but I believe they should be providing a system that proactively cools when there is less demand _prior_ to an expected increase in demand. Effectively using your house as a "battery". When I had it enabled, I was _always_ too hot (in…

The silly thing is that I can simply adjust my thermostat to a lower temperature, so that the effective temperature is the same as without this program. As an example, if I set it to 74, then when Energy Savings kicks in, it may set it to 76, which is too warm for me. So I simply set the "standard" temperature to 72, and it will set it to 74. I use the same energy as without this program, yet I get my $25 energy savi…

It seems like maintaining a higher delta-T from ambient would require more energy, not the same amount. You are still shaving the peak demand with this approach, so the $25 could still be earned.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#75

Post by BeetleB »

sokoloff wrote: post #74
BeetleB wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The silly thing is that I can simply adjust my thermostat to a lower temperature, so that the effective temperature is the same as without this program. As an example, if I set it to 74, then when Energy Savings kicks in, it may set it to 76, which is too warm for me. So I simply set the "standard" temperature to 72, and it will set it to 74. I use the same energy as without this program, yet I get my $25 energy savi…

It seems like maintaining a higher delta-T from ambient would require more energy, not the same amount. You are still shaving the peak demand with this approach, so the $25 could still be earned.

I'm not following. Peak event is, say, from 3-7pm. All my Ecobee does is set the thermostat to be a few degrees higher in that time period.

So as soon as it hits 3pm, I change my thermostat to a cooler temperature, so that the final temperature is what it would have been without this program.

Pretty much exactly the same usage as without enrolling into the program. Same "spikes", etc. Without the program, it would be set to 74 continuously. With the program, it's set to 74 before 3pm, and then at around 3pm (or just before), I set it to 72 so that it will continue at 74.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#76

Post by BeetleB »

ceejayoz wrote: post #69
BeetleB wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The silly thing is that I can simply adjust my thermostat to a lower temperature, so that the effective temperature is the same as without this program. As an example, if I set it to 74, then when Energy Savings kicks in, it may set it to 76, which is too warm for me. So I simply set the "standard" temperature to 72, and it will set it to 74. I use the same energy as without this program, yet I get my $25 energy savi…

That's fine, really. The utility's concern is predictability and burst capacity, not raw usage, so they know when and how many https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant to turn on, which may take a while.

Not sure I follow. If they just want to know in advance, then they don't need to modify the temperature at all, correct?

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#77

Post by sokoloff »

BeetleB wrote: post #75
sokoloff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like maintaining a higher delta-T from ambient would require more energy, not the same amount. You are still shaving the peak demand with this approach, so the $25 could still be earned.

I'm not following. Peak event is, say, from 3-7pm. All my Ecobee does is set the thermostat to be a few degrees higher in that time period. So as soon as it hits 3pm, I change my thermostat to a cooler temperature, so that the final temperature is what it would have been without this program. Pretty much exactly the same usage as without enrolling into the program. Same "spikes", etc. Without the program, it would be…

I did not read "standard temperature" to mean "a thing that I manually adjust twice per day on a fixed schedule" but rather "I set it 2ºF colder in April and leave it that way until November".

If you are willing to make 60 thermostat adjustments per month at 42¢ each, you earned that $25 in my book.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#78

Post by [deleted] »

celticninja wrote: post #50
MonkeyMalarky wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like heating/cooling your house more in advance of demand? It would be neat if they could enable/disable demand on a rolling basis where AC runs for one subpopulation for part of an hour then for another subpopulation the next part.

or you know, dont live in the desert e.g Phoenix Arizona, or if you do decide to live in the desert then realise that's your choice and dont add to pollution and climate change by trying to cool down a desert with AC.

[deleted]

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#79

Post by mrguyorama »

tguvot wrote: post #64
evanreichard wrote: post #11

Ecobee has eco+ which has "Community Energy Savings" [0]. It was just way too intrusive. It seemed to be a reactive system vs proactive. Technology Connections goes into this more [1], but I believe they should be providing a system that proactively cools when there is less demand _prior_ to an expected increase in demand. Effectively using your house as a "battery". When I had it enabled, I was _always_ too hot (in…

in reality it's hard (and probably expensive) to proactively cool house with AC during summer at hot/sunny regions. I live in a house with rather good insulation (the one mandated by code) in south bay, yet all the walls getting rather warm and even if you try to precool air with AC walls with bring temperature back quickly My solution was to install whole house fan which runs through the night when temperature drops…

If you can feel that your walls are warm I don't think that's good enough insulation.

The whole house fan solution is great though.

Re: Smart thermostats inadvertently strain electric power grids

#80

Post by codazoda »

taylodl wrote: post #71

I really don't like the strategy of super cooling in the morning. I prefer fresh air instead. I throw the windows open wide and let all the cool morning air in. By midmorning I'm usually starting to close those windows because the outside air is getting warmer. By mid afternoon I'm closing all those windows and turning on the AC and setting the temperature to 1 degree (Fahrenheit) cooler than the current room tempera…

I don't want to pay for them but I do wish I had automatic windows. It would be so nice if my windows automatically opened if the temperature outside was a few degree's cooler than my house and I was in "cool" mode. If it took the wind into consideration, even better. My house cools off so nicely when I open windows on opposite sides, but I have to remember to open and close them at the appropriate times and I have to be around to do it.
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