Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

You need eminent domain from the government to fix this. At this point - it’s complete class warfare and landowners are fucking over many generations.

When this is your first statement following your attempted "apology", how can anyone be interested in continuing with the conversation?

> You seem to want your interlocutor to follow all the polite rules of discussion while abandoning them all yourself.

It's not about "politeness". It's about honesty. I'd rather have a honest-but-dry conversation than a pleasantly-dishonest one.

> your position (which you haven’t actually ever elaborated)

My position (if it couldn't even be called that) is that NYC is a victim of its own (relative) success compared to all the other cities in the US. The best way to get NYC to become more affordable would be to rescue other cities. There are just too many people with too much money chasing not enough houses in urban areas that are desirable, so of course the prices will go up in the places that are.

Rent control is not going to solve this. It's only going to create a privileged class that is going to cling on to their old leases. Landlords will have zero incentive to invest. Developers will have less incentive to build, and then only the existing stock will continue to be around.

It's supply that needs to be fixed. Also, it may seem counter-intuitive at first, but to fix cities in North America you need to get rid of suburbia.

No one really considers it, but in a booming market you might be more likely to have a higher percentage of underutilised properties. When the market turns, those properties that were making money just by virtue of existing now lose money. A second home or a holiday home is one example. A house being slowly renovated is another. Plain old land-banked properties, etc.

Put it this way. As the property market has boomed, the proportion of properties owned by investors has increased. Because only investors will underutilise a property (homeowners occupy it by definition), the proportion of underutilised properties increased. When the market turns, capital gains look less certain, and holding costs increase, investors try to get out. The underutilised properties get flushed out.

Insurance $500 a year as you stated, and then you've got a typical driver driving somewhere around 15,000 miles a year if not more. [2] If you've got a 30MPG car [2.1] at $4.50 a gallon [2.2], you're paying $2,250 just to fuel it, before any expenses for maintenance, oil changes, tires, etc. If you've got a car payment like 35% of Americans, the average payment for a used car is around $500 [2.3], but since we're dealing with averages and vehicles whose lifespans exceed their loans, maybe we can just go ahead and cut that in half to $250/month.

Don't forget that the poorest Americans get the worst auto loan rates, so their payment may be pretty high for a car that has already depreciated significantly. They're losing money to interest that isn't even technically being put into the vehicle itself.

So our grand TCO for this hypothetical car is $5,750, which is really close to the averages that you see in my first reference. [1]

I think this is a really, really reasonable ballpark estimate.

How are you supposed to own only one car if you are a dual-income household in the suburbs and work two different jobs at different locations? Owning one car per person is not a "luxury" in this country, it is just about the norm (1.88 cars per person in the USA). [3]

If it was a "luxury," the entire freaking country wouldn't be doing it.

You really think NYC has a lower obesity rate as an effect rather than a cause, as in, all the people with obesity just say "well, I guess I can't live here anymore, I'll go move to the suburbs?" Do you have any information to back up that type of thinking?

New York (due to NYC) is the most physically active state according to FitBit, and you're gonna jump on here and claim that this completely disconnected obesity rates? [4]

It's not hard to figure out that higher levels activity help prevent obesity. Calories in calories out, walking and walking up and down stairs burns more calories than sitting. [4.1]

The 65+ commuters in NYC are actually the most active commuting segment of the population and over half walk 10 blocks or more per day. [5] I have a hunch they might still be alive and productive because they're so active!

NYC's subway system will be 95% accessible by 2055, [6] which is really quite soon on the scale of city planning and development. About 25% of stations are currently accessible, and really a subway system 25% the size of NYC's system is still a vast transit network. This also doesn't include New York's vast bus system, which is essentially 100% accessible. Tell me, how do you expect the vision impaired to get around in areas that require cars?

When it comes to your point about getting out to the mountains, it's important to note that NYC has plenty of transit-accessible outdoor spaces, including perhaps the best city park in the entire world, Central Park. NYC is extremely well-connected to regional rail and other methods of transit to all sorts of destinations, including outdoor spaces. [6.1] And, yes, New Yorkers can rent a car once in a while, it's a lot cheaper than owning one! They can even stop paying for their MTA fares while they're out of town, while car owners continue to pay for insurance even if they're spending time away from home. A lot of those car owners are even paying daily to park their car at the airport!

Last point: How hard is it really to live in a small apartment, when most people are drowning in clutter and wasteful purchases? [7] How much space in your house is dedicated to storing your vehicle? How much space in your home is dedicated to storing things you rarely or never use? Holiday decorations?

[1] https://www.move.org/average-cost-owning-a-car/

[2] https://www.thezebra.com/resources/driving/average-miles-dri...

[2.1] https://www.bts.gov/content/average-fuel-efficiency-us-light...

I'm also being generous, the national average is 25MPG not 30MPG.

[2.2] https://gasprices.aaa.com/

[2.3] https://www.finder.com/car-loan-statistics

[3] https://www.statista.com/statistics/551403/number-of-vehicle...

[4] https://www.ibtimes.com/do-new-yorkers-walk-10000-steps-day-...

[4.1] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesi...

[5] https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/doh/downloads/pdf/survey/survey-...

[6] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/22/nyregion/nyc-subway-acces...

[6.1] https://www.outdoors.org/resources/amc-outdoors/adventures/8...

[7] https://www.thesimplicityhabit.com/statistics-on-clutter-tha...