Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time • Hacker News Board

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#181

Post by jjulius » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:11 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #148

v7p1Qbt1im wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Wealthy residents should at some point realize that culture and entertainment venues/options are (often) created by lower income residents. If that disappears you get soulless places which are dramatically less fun to live in. Not to mention the service industry workers, who also need to come from somewhere.

You can get all that online. So it might make sense to move these communities to somewhere very very cheap. Or even distribute them around.

>You can get all that online.

No, you can't.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#182

Post by Aunche » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

slaw wrote: post #5

> The big picture: This points to a conundrum. The Fed is raising rates to cool inflation. But rate hikes are driving higher rents, which are fueling inflation. Why everyone and their dog says Fed is raising rates, when Fed just barely raised rates. Year over year inflation is 9.3% and Fed interest rate is only 1.5%, while it should be 2% points over inflation.

> But rate hikes are driving higher rents

This doesn't make sense to me. Rate hikes decrease spending overall, so why would rent be any different?

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#183

Post by wahnfrieden » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

Baloo wrote: post #170

nickles wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income This is great policy if you want to make housing unaffordable. When supply is less than demand, prices go up. Those price increases incentivize builders to increase the housing stock (which subsequently lowers prices). Capping prices prevents the price mechani…

>Those price increases incentivize builders to increase the housing stock (which subsequently lowers prices). This is not reality though. Here in the UK our housing is in major crisis because people simply cannot afford the insane price increases. Pretty much everyone I know shares their living situation, on their own they would not be able to afford basic amenities. The guardian today published an article showing: >…

No post body was provided.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#184

Post by throwaway5959 » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #147

spaniard89277 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The policy I mention is precisely that, public housing being at least 40% of the supply. If demand increases, you increase supply.

So you're telling me that the government should build millions of new units in NYC, until they control 40% of the market? Am I understanding that correctly?

If the private market won’t do it, why not?

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#185

Post by bleuchase » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:12 PM UTC

spaniard89277 wrote: post #36

Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income, and renting to a representative distribution of tenants so to prevent guettos. Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost…

> Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it

That's a bold claim. What led you to believe that's the case? And what is a "non-transable good"?

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#186

Post by kuschku » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:13 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #147

spaniard89277 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The policy I mention is precisely that, public housing being at least 40% of the supply. If demand increases, you increase supply.

So you're telling me that the government should build millions of new units in NYC, until they control 40% of the market? Am I understanding that correctly?

Seize the less developed parts, and build high-density affordable housing there. Yes, that’s the only action that’d have a chance at solving this issue.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#187

Post by zx8080 » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:13 PM UTC

Ekaros wrote: post #148

v7p1Qbt1im wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Wealthy residents should at some point realize that culture and entertainment venues/options are (often) created by lower income residents. If that disappears you get soulless places which are dramatically less fun to live in. Not to mention the service industry workers, who also need to come from somewhere.

You can get all that online. So it might make sense to move these communities to somewhere very very cheap. Or even distribute them around.

Isn't it known as Tiktok?

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#188

Post by jahnu » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:13 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #174

jahnu wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been this way in Vienna for many many decades and still it’s a very affordable city. So I dunno, I do believe this can go wrong if implemented incorrectly and has done in some cities, but it hasn’t here yet and looks fairly stable for the foreseeable too.

How many new units have been added over the last 20 years?

Not sure exactly but the population has grown from 1.5 million in 2001 to 1.9 million in 2021 Some of that growth fit into existing stock but since the late 90s there has been a lot of new neighbourhoods built. The city generally plans ahead, even building public transport like metro out before it is completely needed.

E.g. out to this new neighbourhood

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspern

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#189

Post by jbverschoor » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:13 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #147

spaniard89277 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The policy I mention is precisely that, public housing being at least 40% of the supply. If demand increases, you increase supply.

So you're telling me that the government should build millions of new units in NYC, until they control 40% of the market? Am I understanding that correctly?

Create better and cheaper transport and the problem will go away

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#190

Post by cataphract » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 3:13 PM UTC

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #111

ricardobeat wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would housing become unaffordable if the state intervenes? The purpose is precisely to control affordability. Prices are controlled for social housing, and flexing supply allows you to influence the free market prices. Supply is always less than demand in dense cities/countries, leaving it for the 'invisible hand' only ensures that the whole market is unaffordable and/or gentrified. Like what we are seeing in thi…

>It isn't perfect (massive bubble on the free market right now) but seems to work well enough. No it doesn't. We have massive wait lists for social housing, and being middle class arguably leaves you in a worse state due to social housing eligibility only applying to very low incomes, and anyone with an office job close to the city will easily earn too much for social housing, but not enough for private norms. Meanwh…

This is what I remember when I lived in Utrecht a decade ago. It would only work for a subset of people. People who would get on the list for public housing once they moved there for college. And in some cases delay getting married so that their combined income wouldn't go over the threshold...