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Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

technollama.co.uk

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Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#51

Post by golergka »

axg11 wrote: post #13

I live in Canada and recently invested a small amount in a startup via AngelList RUV. There were two funding options: (1) wire transfer, (2) transfer USDC via Ethereum network. One of these options is cheaper, faster, and more flexible than the other. Crypto has long been criticized for being gambling and lacking utility. I think utility is finally trickling in, although currently in limited settings. If you look at…

And even in countries with more useful wire transfer, you wouldn't buy drugs with them.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#52

Post by nailer »

dcolkitt wrote: post #38
nailer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum’s famously expensive and slow though.

Just raised a funding round, and about half the investors used USDC and half used wire transfers. On "famously expensive and slow" Ethereum, the USDC transfers took 15 seconds and cost under $2. Oh and even better, I was able to just use a simple human readable [X].eth address, instead of an incomprehensible string of routing number digits.

Gas is pretty cheap right now as there's little network activity due to crypto winter - people are holding their crypto.

And yes 15 seconds is slow.

Indeed, a human readable address is nice if you trust whoever gave it to you (ENS is naming not identity, someone else can register dcolkitt.eth or dcolkit.eth or dcollkit.eth if they like).

There's some good bits and some bad bits. Not advocating for or against crypto.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#53

Post by deepu256 »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #19
deepu256 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility" Yes. FOR NOW. But public decentralised blockchains have interesting properties (enabling ownership , Liquidity , composability) and lots of smart people are trying to use those properties to build interesting apps. These apps are not there yet. I am optimistic that some good apps will be launched in nex…

People have been saying that for quite some time now, but I don't see it. Why is it so difficult to find utility with this "tech"? As long are you are not a criminal, ownership and liquidity are not huge pain, what is the real, tangible benefit of decentralized banking? I am not convinced that monetary transactions should be above the Law, and for them to be lawful they have to be centrally regulated in some ways.

It's difficult because blockchains have not yet scaled the infra yet. The amount of data that we can currently put on most decentralised chains is very less. This will improve though and allow us to put a decent amount of data on the blockchain.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#54

Post by deepu256 »

blueflow wrote: post #17
deepu256 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility" Yes. FOR NOW. But public decentralised blockchains have interesting properties (enabling ownership , Liquidity , composability) and lots of smart people are trying to use those properties to build interesting apps. These apps are not there yet. I am optimistic that some good apps will be launched in nex…

These properties aren't unique, they can be achieved using regular asymmetric cryptography. For like, 45 years now.

Ok, then show me a credible 3rd Party where I can store my ownership data apart from Government. (Most corporations which currently store my data proved that they cannot be trusted and they only look after their shareholders. Not users.)

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#55

Post by FabHK »

dcolkitt wrote: post #47
pavlov wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wire transfers in North America are literally 40 years behind the evolution of bank transfers in EU and UK. Sending money in Europe is free and increasingly often instantaneous 24/7. It will be very difficult for crypto to reach the level of convenience available on unified infrastructure created through sensible regulation. Lacking that, maybe Americans will have to keep settling for all these clunky, incompatible i…

But that's the point, crypto is a coordination mechanism that in most cases serves as an alternative when you don't have effective and trustworthy centralized institutions. It's pretty clear that (in this case) European financial regulators did a good job coordinating an effective and efficient electronic money transmission system. But the whole world is not Sweden. Even in America, which is relatively first world wi…

Good analysis, and you are right. I think purely technical attempts to solve current political/social problems are doomed, while better institutions can and have been built.

Now, what makes you think that the regulators in well-run countries will continue to accept this inefficient and unregulated money alternative full of scams?

Crypto currencies could be banned to quite an extent (mining, on/off ramps, maybe even the network traffic, which is unencrypted, if I am not mistaken.)

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#56

Post by deepu256 »

stephc_int13 wrote: post #19
deepu256 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility" Yes. FOR NOW. But public decentralised blockchains have interesting properties (enabling ownership , Liquidity , composability) and lots of smart people are trying to use those properties to build interesting apps. These apps are not there yet. I am optimistic that some good apps will be launched in nex…

People have been saying that for quite some time now, but I don't see it. Why is it so difficult to find utility with this "tech"? As long are you are not a criminal, ownership and liquidity are not huge pain, what is the real, tangible benefit of decentralized banking? I am not convinced that monetary transactions should be above the Law, and for them to be lawful they have to be centrally regulated in some ways.

"As long are you are not a criminal, ownership and liquidity are not huge pain, what is the real, tangible benefit of decentralized banking?"

Capital formation for any common purpose without trusting 3rd parties. As an example -> there are some NFT vault DAOs where strangers pool together to purchase NFTs that are too costly. People Vote on proposals regarding which NFT to acquire and when.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#57

Post by acdha »

nightski wrote: post #32
acdha wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if it did, I don't see what modern tech corps have to do with anything - they didn't build the internet. Also, on age, the early internet dates back to the 60s and was still considered "early" 30+ years later. I think the tech companies are relevant because they pivoted to find useful applications on top of that basic infrastructure, which the hundreds of blockchain companies have failed to do. AOL made millio…

The limit on Bitcoin that I saw early on was market cap, liquidity, and stability. As the first two rise, so should the third. It's been a long grind to the market cap today and it still has a ways to go. But to build up that momentum and trust takes a lot of time. I'm not necessarily saying Bitcoin should do this or that I desire it. Just stating one reason why it takes time.

I don’t think it’s that simple: Bitcoin is the purest form of fiat currency backed by neither sovereign authority or hard assets, and the deflationary model encourages hoarding unless you’re convinced it’s permanently going down. That combination seems likely to produce volatility even with fairly large amounts of capital flowing in.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#58

Post by FabHK »

p4bl0 wrote: post #34
deepu256 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is all very simple in practice, the blockchain is barely useful, crypto coins and NFTs have very low utility" Yes. FOR NOW. But public decentralised blockchains have interesting properties (enabling ownership , Liquidity , composability) and lots of smart people are trying to use those properties to build interesting apps. These apps are not there yet. I am optimistic that some good apps will be launched in nex…

The only thing a blockchain can do is a cryptocurrency. The cryptocurrency is the only application that works because transactions are performative writings on the blockchain: they define truth. Once it is written on a blockchain that Alice has transferred X tokens to Bob, it instantly becomes a fact by definition, so you can trust what is written on the blockchain. In any other application, what's written on the blo…

aka the oracle problem. Indeed.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#59

Post by nailer »

christophilus wrote: post #28
nailer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum’s famously expensive and slow though.

And yet it was faster / cheaper / easier for the OP vs the traditional banking mechanisms. That says more about the US and Canadian banks than anything else.

> I live in Canada and recently invested a small amount in a startup via AngelList RUV. There were two funding options: (1) wire transfer, (2) transfer USDC via Ethereum network. One of these options is cheaper, faster, and more flexible than the other.

Oh I didn't know that's what the answer was. Having used both (and living in Europe), I'd thought the 'cheaper, faster' option OP mentioned was a modern wire transfer service.

Re: Crypto Winter, or Crypto Ice Age?

#60

Post by unicornmama »

axg11 wrote: post #35
unicornmama wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Switzerland it costs me zero to transfer CHF.

With one single integration, AngelList can receive USDC from anyone, anywhere in the world. It doesn't matter if you can transfer CHF very cheaply locally.

I've on/off ramped CHF to USDC. It's a pain in the ass. And you lose 1% in process. Certainly not easier than a CHF->USD wire.
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