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Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

theguardian.com

211–220 of 634 posts

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#211
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we're working to different definitions of the term. To me, virtue signaling is signaling (i.e. making publicly known) a virtuous act. To me that seems like an unambiguously good thing: it is likely to inspire others to similar virtuous acts, creating a feedback loop of people encouraging others to engage in good behaviour. "I voted! You should get out and vote too" feels like an example of positive virtual si…

The problem with public displays of virtue is that it comes off as seeking return value for the action. Virtuous acts should be done in quiet/secret and for the simple reason for it being virtuous. Seeking some other sort of value out of it (like social recognition, social credit, youtube views which end up with ad revenue) makes the act look dishonest. The act wasn't done because they were a nice person, the act was…

> it comes off as seeking return value for the action

Surely that’s in the eye of the beholder? It is possible to interpret it that way, certainly. But applying the observers value judgement (i.e. how it comes off) onto the original actor seems unfair to me.

Sometimes I feel like (and I don’t mean anything personal by this) we’re all cynical bastards these days so when we see someone do something genuinely altruistic we simply cannot process it as such and immediately seek a way to dismiss it as self-serving.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#212

I sort of feel compelled to quote the Bible here, though I'm not religious. "So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do ... to be honored by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in s…

"And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." So still selfish (if doing it for the reward), but that is human nature.

I think the point is that if you focus too much on the reward, you lose focus on helping the person. It's not that it's bad to (want to) be rewarded for good deeds, it's bad when you end up making things worse because of it.

By some views every action you take is motivated by some psychological reward, and if you follow that through you end up with a view that there's no good/bad/emotion/etc and everything is purely mechanical.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#213

Nothing wrong with the video imo, if people think it's stupid that's just their opinion. When you're in public anything goes. The place this went wrong is that they lied to her about being filmed and didn't get her consent: but on the other hand, no one expects security camera operators to get consent either.

> When you're in public anything goes. There's a rule of thumb I hope doesn't catch on.

What's your stance then? That it should be illegal to speak to people in public?

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#214
post #67

The reason this act breaks a moral boundary is that it subverts a principle of "ends" [1]. A genuine random act of kindness cannot occur if it's being filmed. Filming the act turns it into a virtue display. It also turns the subject into an object of utility, a means and not and end in themself. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Ends

Isn't a limitation of Kant's view that intention is all that matters? In other words, neither context or outcome change the morality of the action?

It's not her limitation. A limitation would be to not realise the true intent.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#216
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just because they caused harm does not make them defective, both lawn darts, and social media are working exactly as the manufacturer intended Then would it possibly be a better distinction to define them instead as poorly designed products with large negative externalities? If I build a product that meets it's stated goal but poisons the environment around it, it's not "defective" in the myopic view, but poorly de…

That depends on the type and scope of "negative externalities", and not all libertarian philosophies agree on the where to draw that line. Some would say a negative exernality like CO2 emissions would raise to the level for government regulations (violating NAP) , other libertarian philosophies would not, viewing it a totalitarian control as human breath expeals CO2 so if the government can regulate it then there are…

>viewing it a totalitarian control as human breath expeals CO2 so if the government can regulate it then there are no limits on government at all.

"If the gubmit can tell multinational corps not to pull oil out of the ground, they can make me hold my breath! It produces the same molecule!" Libertarian philosophy in a nutshell.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#217

I sort of feel compelled to quote the Bible here, though I'm not religious. "So when you give to the needy, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do ... to be honored by men. Truly I tell you, they already have their full reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father, who sees what is done in s…

> I sort of feel compelled to quote the Bible here, though I'm not religious.

There's a lot of ancient wisdom that has stood the test of time in there, from which many could benefit. As we move away from the idea of a man-like god running the universe, I hope we still keep the good bits.

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#218
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how these videos say they're intended to spread love and encourage random acts of kindness, but the actual effect of them is decreasing trust in strangers (that they might be filming us for their tiktok). This makes me not trust anyone that goes up to me in the street.

So much of the content I see now on TikTok and other apps is totally staged, and quite often poorly staged at that. It would be interesting to know who funds the production of many of the videos, because there's obviously an advertising scheme or some sort of moneymaking ploy behind a lot of it. I think things really took off with the people who were making "gold-digger" videos, where a guy tries to talk to a girl an…

> there's obviously an advertising scheme or some sort of moneymaking ploy behind a lot of it.

gaining influence with videos like these (widespread, "easy content") will probably earn you some advertisement deals

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps we're working to different definitions of the term. To me, virtue signaling is signaling (i.e. making publicly known) a virtuous act. To me that seems like an unambiguously good thing: it is likely to inspire others to similar virtuous acts, creating a feedback loop of people encouraging others to engage in good behaviour. "I voted! You should get out and vote too" feels like an example of positive virtual si…

I agree that folks need to have a discerning eye on this. There are several channels on YouTube where lawn care guys will mow an overgrown yard for free. Yes, they are filming it and hoping to drum up interest in their channel, but providing free lawn care is objectively a kind and expensive thing to do. In these cases, the amount of effort expended being actually kind makes it obvious it's not just some stage with p…

Absolutely, and I’d say your example prompts a further question: even if it is partially self serving, maybe it’s worth the price? If these YouTubers are are looking for subscribers but also do free lawn care and inspire others to do other free things for those who can’t do it themselves… do we really need to be so down on it?

Re: Woman ‘dehumanised’ by viral TikTok filmed without her consent

#220
"It’s the patronising assumption that … older women will be thrilled by some random stranger giving them flowers."

This reminds me of when high schoolers get the "generous" idea of nominating an unpopular girl, who they never talk to and only talk about, for prom queen. There's nothing nice about it.

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