Live data from Hacker News

Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

axios.com

151–160 of 1001 posts

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#151

Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income, and renting to a representative distribution of tenants so to prevent guettos. Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost…

New York City already has like 150k+ income based public housing units. It’s not ideal.

150k is nothing for NYC

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#153
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free market advocates always find the next culprit why the market can't deliver. I can only speak of Berlin where land prices and construction prices have increased by demand so much, that new construction is coming in at 4x than 10 years ago (from 2k per sqm to 8k). I don't see how the market is really solving anything here.

> Free market advocates always find the next culprit why the market can't deliver. I advocate for the free market because it's been the most reliable way of elevating humans from subsistence levels of consumption and improving their quality of life. It's been the driving force in elevating billions of people from poverty over recent decades. I'd wager that most people, free market advocates or otherwise, would consid…

I'm a HUGE believer in reducing barriers to competition. I agree that high prices should lead to entrepreneurial increase of supply. However, I think it's massively, massively important to realize the successes of some planned economies. I'm not trying to use empty rhetoric in the following paragraph, I'm trying to identify the "free market"-iness of many of the most impactful "ways of elevating humans" in the past 500 years:

The "free market" did not establish the US interstate highway system and power grid, or lift 1.4 billion people in China out of poverty in a single generation. The free market did not establish railroads in the US (monopolistic robber-baron markets are not free markets). Free markets did not elevate Europeans from 1500-1950 (colonial slavery). Free markets did not sustain American agriculture for one hundred years after slavery was abolished (prison labor).

--------

The real point of this is: Maybe it's okay if we have a China-style or 1930-1950's USA-style planned economy to spark a domestic renaissance via:

- Massive housing initiative, starting with the base (bringing more people into trades, greatly expanding domestic material supply, and a fierce fight against NIMBY-ism). This will have to first cause a glut of material and labor, while keeping the excess labor happy (paid) and future material supply expanding (subsidies). Free market isn't great at pushing through local optimums...but cheaper supply should lead to increased utilization eventually!

- All new housing should be luxury. High efficiency, high comfort -- these will be what everyone is living in 20 years from now. It doesn't cost that much more to build but it makes a massive difference in QoL. Personally I dream of mid-rises and high-rises where people can practice tuba/piano/drums without bothering the surrounding units, or lift weights, or run a small woodshop. Have access to spaces where larger projects can be undertaken: DIY car repair, for example. This should greatly improve entrepreneurialism.

- Pharmaceutical / healthcare reform

- Intellectual property reform (exponentially growing annual fees for patents, etc)

- Import/export/sales tax reform (regulatory compliance is incredibly hard and expensive, sales tax is super regressive and anti-entrepreneurial because it encourages vertical integration to avoid "sales" being taxed, VAT would be much more friendly to a true free market for niche value-adds to gain foothold).

- Massive education reform (pay teachers enough ($120k+) to have a surplus of expert labor migrate in from engineering / management / trades / science careers.

- Migrate manufacturing out of China and into disparate continents (South America, Africa, greater Asia). Domestic manufacturing would obviously be amazing but I think USA is too economically fragile to handle the increased costs of safety and environmental controls which the US people would rightly demand.

People are worried that if the housing market experiences a glut that people who saved all their money into their home as an investment will lose their retirement. However, I believe that as additional high-density units are built, the land those homeowners can sell will increase greatly in value -- because the house can be torn down and a mid-rise or skyscraper can be placed there instead, turning it from an unaffordable single-family "value" to a very affordable 10-50 family "value". That land would be worth way more if a midrise or highrise could be built on it.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDK if it's a very socialist solution, provided that it aims to increase disposable income and savings, that will pour into consumption, people starting their own businesses, etc. Think also that the program can avoid deficit by not having only low-income tenants, providing more opportunities for social mobility and allowing more consumption which means more VAT taxes, specially if you're smart enough to provide your…

> IDK if it's a very socialist solution, provided that it aims to increase disposable income and savings Socialism is a left-wing political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership. [0] Government ownership of housing, as opposed to private ownership, is unambiguously socialist pol…

> Here's the issue with central planning. How does the government know which services residents will find desirable? I don't drink alcohol; why should my taxes pay for bars, which contribute to the death of >100k Americans a year? This difficulty is known as the local information problem.

I didn't say that government runs the bussiness. The public hoosuing buildings have space at ground level that is rented for businesses.

In many european contries you have supermarkets for the neighborhood in those spaces.

This is not public housing, but the lowest income neighborhood in my city, serves as example of where bussineses can be located. https://www.google.es/maps/place/Gadis/@43.3576146,-8.416073...

Another example: https://www.google.es/maps/place/Eroski+Center/@43.3754534,-...

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York City already has like 150k+ income based public housing units. It’s not ideal.

150k is nothing for NYC

That represents like a half million tenants. “Nothing” isn’t how I would describe it!

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#156
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free market advocates always find the next culprit why the market can't deliver. I can only speak of Berlin where land prices and construction prices have increased by demand so much, that new construction is coming in at 4x than 10 years ago (from 2k per sqm to 8k). I don't see how the market is really solving anything here.

> Free market advocates always find the next culprit why the market can't deliver. I advocate for the free market because it's been the most reliable way of elevating humans from subsistence levels of consumption and improving their quality of life. It's been the driving force in elevating billions of people from poverty over recent decades. I'd wager that most people, free market advocates or otherwise, would consid…

Industrialization, constitutional democracy, science, regulation, and unions have raised standards of living for the majority of people. You forget history if you don't remember things like the Battle of Blair Mountain (first aerial bombardment on US soil) or the Triangle Shirtwaist factory, not to mention the incredible death and misery inflicted by that first capitalistic country Britain. The free market does not feel very free to the vast majority of people who have to deal with incredibly oppressive companies and plutocrats, and when laws and police are geared to oppressing the poor and the jobless.

Do not take me to advocate for centralized planning, but we do have to have democratic governmental intervention to prevent the free market from chewing us all up and spitting us out.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one forces you to do that.

I don't think anyone should have to be subjected to that type of treatment.

I don't know what type of treatment you mean. I guess you're thinking on a guetto, which is adressed in my first message.

Also, people apply voluntarily. You're free to live in a private-owned rental

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IDK if it's a very socialist solution, provided that it aims to increase disposable income and savings Socialism is a left-wing political, social, and economic philosophy encompassing a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production, as opposed to private ownership. [0] Government ownership of housing, as opposed to private ownership, is unambiguously socialist pol…

> Here's the issue with central planning. How does the government know which services residents will find desirable? I don't drink alcohol; why should my taxes pay for bars, which contribute to the death of >100k Americans a year? This difficulty is known as the local information problem. I didn't say that government runs the bussiness. The public hoosuing buildings have space at ground level that is rented for busin…

> I didn't say that government runs the bussiness. The public hoosuing buildings have space at ground level that is rented for businesses.

I misunderstood what you meant as to who would choose which services to provide. Completely agree with you about mixed zoning, it's really beneficial to have the businesses near residents.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#159

Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income, and renting to a representative distribution of tenants so to prevent guettos. Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost…

> preferably by doing the same as Vienna

have 2.25 million population before WW1 and then decline in population for almost 100 years? They still haven't recovered (1.89m). It may be an enormous mistake to read into their allocation policy because they've simply had a very easy time allocating so far.

St Louis population has declined for 70 years. It is very affordable. It's just not hard to accomplish affordability like that.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one forces you to do that.

I don't think anyone should have to be subjected to that type of treatment.

The alternative for many is worse - many roommates, incredibly long commute, or homelessness. Remember that Googler who lived in his car? (https://www.businessinsider.com/google-employee-lives-in-tru...)
Post reply on HN