Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time • Hacker News Board

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#61

Post by atlgator » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:21 PM UTC

eushebdbsh wrote: post #14

slaw wrote: post #5

> The big picture: This points to a conundrum. The Fed is raising rates to cool inflation. But rate hikes are driving higher rents, which are fueling inflation. Why everyone and their dog says Fed is raising rates, when Fed just barely raised rates. Year over year inflation is 9.3% and Fed interest rate is only 1.5%, while it should be 2% points over inflation.

people have taken on all this cheap debt and are just realising they have to pay for it

To be fair, the people that took on the cheap debt aren't necessarily the ones paying for it.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#62

Post by cheschire » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:21 PM UTC

bigyikes wrote: post #23

I’ve had this thought floating around in my head for a while, and it seems wrong, but I’m not completely sure why. I’m hoping someone more knowledgeable might be able to set me straight. Prices on the coasts — like 5k rent — are astronomically high compared to prices in, say, the midwest. This shocks many people. You could easily make the same comparison between the midwest and some non-developed nation. The differen…

There's probably a lot of reasons building up to this. I suspect that a lot of this comes from the constant reinforcement of equality as broad concept. The idea that all people should have equal opportunities seems to have been perverted by some into the idea that all people should be the same. Then there's the idea of america as "one nation" instead of a massive collection of communities. Throw in the american need to spread out, and you start to get this culture that is far more homogenous than in the patchwork of cultures of europe and africa.

So with that backdrop, it seems the problem is people who think they're the same get shocked to find out they're not.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#63

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:22 PM UTC

nickles wrote: post #51

spaniard89277 wrote: post #36

Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income, and renting to a representative distribution of tenants so to prevent guettos. Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost…

> should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income This is great policy if you want to make housing unaffordable. When supply is less than demand, prices go up. Those price increases incentivize builders to increase the housing stock (which subsequently lowers prices). Capping prices prevents the price mechani…

Is housing unaffordable in Vienna? If so, your mechanism might explain it. If housing is not unaffordable in Vienna, your explanation seems likely to be missing something.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#64

Post by vehicles2b » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:22 PM UTC

bigyikes wrote: post #23

I’ve had this thought floating around in my head for a while, and it seems wrong, but I’m not completely sure why. I’m hoping someone more knowledgeable might be able to set me straight. Prices on the coasts — like 5k rent — are astronomically high compared to prices in, say, the midwest. This shocks many people. You could easily make the same comparison between the midwest and some non-developed nation. The differen…

Can you clarify what you mean by development? As far as the apartments themselves, they can range from newly developed, to newly renovated, to very old and needing renovations. I figured the apartments along the coasts, and in particular the Manhattan area are quite old.

I do think that development on a global scale has given people the ability to move to places like Manhattan, and so development outside, as well as within could create the demand for higher rent.

Affordable apartments may not be developing at high enough rate to keep up with demand - but in a place like Manhattan, surely it is difficult to develop affordable housing.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#65

Post by madaxe_again » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:22 PM UTC

nickles wrote: post #51

spaniard89277 wrote: post #36

Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income, and renting to a representative distribution of tenants so to prevent guettos. Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost…

> should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income This is great policy if you want to make housing unaffordable. When supply is less than demand, prices go up. Those price increases incentivize builders to increase the housing stock (which subsequently lowers prices). Capping prices prevents the price mechani…

Unless of course your builders wise up and work together to produce the bare minimum of housing stock required in order to keep prices rising, as they don’t want to flood with stock and reduce demand.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#66

Post by cies » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:22 PM UTC

spaniard89277 wrote: post #36

Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income, and renting to a representative distribution of tenants so to prevent guettos. Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost…

Totally agree. It is one of the perfect resources to extort people with. Unlike food the price of houses rarely drop to zero, and often go up. Like food, it is very essential to people.

What you propose is a very socialist solution. I've read somewhere that in the USSR paying more than 4% of your income to housing was considered criminal (as they calculated that's what housing would cost using cost-based-pricing).

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#67

Post by ctvo » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:23 PM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #48

jpdpeters wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds waaay too expensive. GDP per capita is 39K USD and 18% of the population lives in Paris. How would that work?

"Paris" is only the small place within the old walls. It's population is under 2M, most of them owners, with ownership lasting since before WWI, who could never afford to buy (or rent) now. Rest are suburbs and don't have Paris on it's address. And sure, rents there are a lot lot cheaper.

You continue to reply to defend your position that 5k euros is below average rent per month for Eastern European capitals in their most attractive locations. Do you actually have data?

It's such an extraordinary claim people are using Paris (not an Eastern European capital) as a counter example, but let's not move the goal post.

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#68

Post by jononomo » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:23 PM UTC

I decided about four years ago that it just doesn’t make sense to live in NYC if you’re not making $200k/year consistently. Also, I was surprised at how many people without an original thought in their head earn $200k/year in NYC —- the city rewards a sort of dull ambition. Do you want to hang out with people who are intelligent and ambitious yet somehow fail to be interesting? If so, then NYC is for you!

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#69

Post by madsbuch » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:23 PM UTC

nickles wrote: post #51

spaniard89277 wrote: post #36

Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income, and renting to a representative distribution of tenants so to prevent guettos. Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost…

> should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income This is great policy if you want to make housing unaffordable. When supply is less than demand, prices go up. Those price increases incentivize builders to increase the housing stock (which subsequently lowers prices). Capping prices prevents the price mechani…

> Those price increases incentivize builders to increase the housing stock

Ahh yes, walking around in NY seeing building projects to increase the supply of housing in the 4th dimension where land is plentiful and the rivers are clean /s

Re: Manhattan rents cross $5k threshold for first time

#70

Post by ricardobeat » Thu, Jul 14, 2022, 12:23 PM UTC

TOMDM wrote: post #56

spaniard89277 wrote: post #36

Housing and land is a non-transable good, and therefore there should be heavy state intervention on it, preferably by doing the same as Vienna, which is holding >40% of the renting stock and charging according to income, and renting to a representative distribution of tenants so to prevent guettos. Rent is the main detractor of disposable income which hurts the rest of the economy, and property owners provide almost…

> CMV Rent is high because the demand in large cities majorly out strips supply. All policies that attempt to address housing costs that don't increase supply are treating a symptom and not the underlying cause.

Increasing the supply alone does not counter the gentrification / ghetto effects the parent comment talked about, in fact it might amplify them.

A gross oversimplification, but if you somehow make ten thousand new apartments available in Manhattan at $1k/month, they will eventually fill up with low-income tenants, which will make them undesirable. Pressure on all the existing $5K properties will remain the same.