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Show HN: Inflation-adjusted stock charts – Total Real Returns

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Re: Show HN: Inflation-adjusted stock charts – Total Real Returns

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a market with one good, the value of a dollar must move inversely with the value of the good (no examples needed, it's mathematically tautological) this is incorrect

I mean the value of the dollar as measured by the CPI.

You do mean that, but it doesn't have a lot of bearing on the correctness of your argument. I suspect you've assumed that wealth is neither created or destroyed somewhere in your logic, because what you are saying would make sense if that was an assumption. But that would be a poor assumption if you've made it.

CPI is a tool for adjusting the value of a dollar, but it doesn't have any bearing on the value of the total economy vs the value of all the dollars in existence. All the dollars in existence might buy the entire economy many times over or they might buy a tiny fraction of it. And that ratio changes continuously (both from money creation and economic activity). There is no inverse relationship mediated by the CPI.

Re: Show HN: Inflation-adjusted stock charts – Total Real Returns

#124
As of today, you need about 12% returns to break even after inflation and the IRS eat your return. Anything less than that and you are effectively losing. Especially annoying that capital gains taxes will be paid on any profits, even those less than inflation. Time for a new rule.

Re: Show HN: Inflation-adjusted stock charts – Total Real Returns

#125
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, what does a young person do these days? Barbell investing from Taleb makes the most sense to me. Cap your downside, go balls out with the rest. And prioritize long-term assets over cashflow. Revenue generating assets are best.

> Cap your downside, go balls out with the rest. This doesn’t mean anything to me. Can you elaborate? Also, why are revenue generating assets better, and doesn’t pursuing revenue generating assets imply prioritizing cash flow? Sorry for the noob questions.

> This doesn’t mean anything to me. Can you elaborate?

Taleb elaborates better in his very accessible book(s). The basic idea is to invest/use most of your net worth in “safe” investments, those primarily keeping up with inflation or just barely beating it. If shit hits the fan, you have a cushion to fall back on.

Anything beyond keeping you safe and comfortable enough should go chasing the highest returns possible. So you can partake in as much upside as possible.

Startup comp follows this logic. Enough salary to fund your life and basic savings, equity to chase high upside.

Revenue generating assets are nice because you don’t just need to sell for a higher price to make a return. They have intrinsic value. For example owning a profitable business or a rental property.

Re: Show HN: Inflation-adjusted stock charts – Total Real Returns

#126

Wish it had the 70s, or ideally, the whole 20th century. The 80s-2010s has been a period of unusually low inflation and consistent market returns, buoyed by the end of the Cold War and entry of the developing world into the world economy. There's a good chance that we revert to the mean going forwards and see much more geopolitical instability and resource constraints.

So, what does a young person do these days? First few years out of college were just "max out 401k contributions into some target fund" + build emergency fund, but now that I've amassed more cash than what an emergency fund requires, what does one do? Originally, my plan was to use it for a house down-payment, but with the mortgage rates having nearly doubled in the last 6 months, that's kind of out of the question a…

> Originally, my plan was to use it for a house down-payment, but with the mortgage rates having nearly doubled in the last 6 months, that's kind of out of the question at this point (especially having moved to a higher property value area to be closer to friends and family).

Higher interest rates lead to lower home prices, which should make it easier to make a down payment. Interest rates may double, but mortgage payment amounts typically end up staying the same. You are in a prime position to buy a house. In the next 30 years, mortgage rates will likely decrease and you can refinance to a better rate, and end up paying a lower price for your house than what you would have had mortgage rates stayed low.

Re: Show HN: Inflation-adjusted stock charts – Total Real Returns

#127
This period has been very special because of the 401k, which is itself part of the growth story of the corporate legal structure. I think this is coming to an end. Corporate boards and officers no longer represent the best long-term interests of the companies and shareholders they represent. It’s also a very precarious legal status as an arbitrary judicial ruling can make or break a company. Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the corporate bubble is based on arbitrary tax codes that both advantage corporations and push worker savings into the stock market.

Even if these conditions continue unabated, the cash flows from working class into the stock market will eventually hit equilibrium with capital extraction from the owner class. If the extractions return to the same markets, then things stay in equilibrium. They won’t, however, because the tax advantaged assets are different for them. They may seek hyper-volatility, or government bond shelters, but will generally avoid the assets on the working class tax treadmill.

There are fundamentals to financial assets that have nothing to do with “number go up”, and these will ultimately dictate reality, with the caveat that “the markets will remain irrational longer than you will remain solvent”. Rationals get wrecked too, except every once in a while when one gets lucky on their timing and makes so much money that they become a hero and we make movies about them. We cheer because it gives us hope that our intuition will serve us too. Unlikely.

This is all to say that such charts are using an inductive hypothesis to predict an inherently anti-inductive phenomenon. People tithe and sacrifice to their church for a promise of rewards in the afterlife. The stonk religion is the same; well worth the price for your peace of mind. True or not, you’d be a mess without it.

Re: Show HN: Inflation-adjusted stock charts – Total Real Returns

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, what does a young person do these days? First few years out of college were just "max out 401k contributions into some target fund" + build emergency fund, but now that I've amassed more cash than what an emergency fund requires, what does one do? Originally, my plan was to use it for a house down-payment, but with the mortgage rates having nearly doubled in the last 6 months, that's kind of out of the question a…

> Originally, my plan was to use it for a house down-payment, but with the mortgage rates having nearly doubled in the last 6 months, that's kind of out of the question at this point (especially having moved to a higher property value area to be closer to friends and family). Higher interest rates lead to lower home prices, which should make it easier to make a down payment. Interest rates may double, but mortgage pa…

That's what my plan is. Just waiting/hoping housing prices drop within the next year or two. Been waiting a while now though so who knows if they'll actually come down

Re: Show HN: Inflation-adjusted stock charts – Total Real Returns

#129
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cap your downside, go balls out with the rest. This doesn’t mean anything to me. Can you elaborate? Also, why are revenue generating assets better, and doesn’t pursuing revenue generating assets imply prioritizing cash flow? Sorry for the noob questions.

> This doesn’t mean anything to me. Can you elaborate? Taleb elaborates better in his very accessible book(s). The basic idea is to invest/use most of your net worth in “safe” investments, those primarily keeping up with inflation or just barely beating it. If shit hits the fan, you have a cushion to fall back on. Anything beyond keeping you safe and comfortable enough should go chasing the highest returns possible.…

Thanks for the explanation. That was very concise and accessible!
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