Ten Percent of the Brain Myth • Hacker News Board

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#101

Post by gavmor » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 5:35 PM UTC

seydor wrote: post #94

I'm concerned about the low level of neuroscientific knowledge in the general population. This is just an example, "humans generally use only 10 percent". There is no "human" who "uses the brain", the brain is the human, or rather the human is in the brain. Due to a high level of societal and political inertia we are indiferrent to facts of the brain that affect our biases , memory, ethics and judgement. This will be…

> There is no "human" who "uses the brain", the brain is the human, or rather the human is in the brain.

Much of the human is said to be outside of the brain; many neurons, even, live outside the brain, and much "thinking" is done, for example, by gut neurons in concert with microbes with whom they're constantly exchanging chemical signals. So, in a sense, the human is in the gut, and the human is in the microbes.

The human is a leaky abstraction!

For further explorations on the permeability of the human, try Annie Murphy Paul's "Extended Mind."[0]

0. https://anniemurphypaul.com/books/the-extended-mind/

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#102

Post by borroka » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 5:38 PM UTC

TillE wrote: post #46

sorenjan wrote: post #36

Another similar myth is the one Malcom Gladwell made up about how it takes 10 000 hours of doing something to become an expert at that thing. It was based on research that used 10 000 as an average for 20 year old violinists. The original researcher, Anders Ericsson, focuses much more on deliberate practice than sheer quantity. https://www.6seconds.org/2022/06/20/10000-hour-rule/ Related Freakonomics episode with And…

I don't think Gladwell is a particularly insightful guy, but as someone who has actually read a couple of his books, I feel like the "10,000 hours" thing is frequently misrepresented. The claim isn't "put in 10k hours and you'll magically become an expert". It's "if you want to become an expert, you have to put in 10k hours". Necessary but not sufficient.

Another missing point, and this happens frequently also in rigorous treatment-control studies, is the heterogeneity of responses to treatment. Say, 10k hours might be the average deliberate practice time needed to reach "expert level" (not true), but for some it can take 1k hours, for others 15k, for others infinite time (but they can drop off), and so on.

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#103

Post by cryptica » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

I've always felt that people use close to 100% of their brain capacity. Some people just don't have any surplus mental energy to spare to learn anything complicated; they would get angry and frustrated if they try; this emotional reaction is their brain telling them that it's too much. They do not have enough mental capacity for this and they will suffer negative mental consequences if they continue. Too much thinking can make some people crazy.

IMO most people are hardwired to be irrational; it's their evolutionary strategy. Irrationality is bad for the system but it's generally good for the individual. You need an irrational mind to be able to come up with ideas which will resonate with the average (irrational) person.

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#104

Post by entropicgravity » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 5:40 PM UTC

So it seems that the only people who only use ten percent of their brain are those who think we only use ten percent of our brain.

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#105

Post by seydor » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 5:40 PM UTC

gavmor wrote: post #101

seydor wrote: post #94

I'm concerned about the low level of neuroscientific knowledge in the general population. This is just an example, "humans generally use only 10 percent". There is no "human" who "uses the brain", the brain is the human, or rather the human is in the brain. Due to a high level of societal and political inertia we are indiferrent to facts of the brain that affect our biases , memory, ethics and judgement. This will be…

> There is no "human" who "uses the brain", the brain is the human, or rather the human is in the brain. Much of the human is said to be outside of the brain; many neurons, even, live outside the brain, and much "thinking" is done, for example, by gut neurons in concert with microbes with whom they're constantly exchanging chemical signals. So, in a sense, the human is in the gut, and the human is in the microbes. Th…

Nah, the person is a representation that is aware of itself, and requires a sort of neural network ,neural density and interconnectivity, that simply does not exist in peripheral sensory systems.

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#106

Post by luxuryballs » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

Sounds like a misunderstanding similar to how people misquote Occam’s razor. Maybe the average person really does only reach 10% of their mental capacity, but they’re still using 100% of their brain to do so.

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#107

Post by gavmor » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 6:12 PM UTC

seydor wrote: post #105

gavmor wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no "human" who "uses the brain", the brain is the human, or rather the human is in the brain. Much of the human is said to be outside of the brain; many neurons, even, live outside the brain, and much "thinking" is done, for example, by gut neurons in concert with microbes with whom they're constantly exchanging chemical signals. So, in a sense, the human is in the gut, and the human is in the microbes. Th…

Nah, the person is a representation that is aware of itself, and requires a sort of neural network ,neural density and interconnectivity, that simply does not exist in peripheral sensory systems.

If you define these systems as "peripheral," then it's tautological that they're not host to central aspects of self-awareness, but I'd argue that "gut feelings" and proprioception are indispensable components of human consciousness.

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#108

Post by yanngagnon » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 6:21 PM UTC

Even if we knew nothing about how the brain works (since we know very little in the grand scheme of things), this idea breaks down immediately from an evolutionary perspective. Given its energy requirements and the fact that brain development is essentially delayed in humans so that the baby may exit the birth canal, it would make on sense for any portion of the brain to be unused.

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#109

Post by seydor » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 6:22 PM UTC

gavmor wrote: post #107

seydor wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, the person is a representation that is aware of itself, and requires a sort of neural network ,neural density and interconnectivity, that simply does not exist in peripheral sensory systems.

If you define these systems as "peripheral," then it's tautological that they're not host to central aspects of self-awareness, but I'd argue that "gut feelings" and proprioception are indispensable components of human consciousness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_nervous_system

Re: Ten Percent of the Brain Myth

#110

Post by 0xbadcafebee » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #91

0xbadcafebee wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can become an expert in cooking a hot dog without 10,000 hours of practice.

Has anyone ever recognize "expert" skill in hot dog cooking? Cooking, certainly, but hot dog cooking?

What does it even mean to be an expert? What are we allowed or not allowed to be an expert in? Who's the judge that sets what fields you can be an expert in? Is there a range of expertise? Do I have to be in the top 10% of people in a field? The top 2%?

The whole idea of being an expert is an arbitrary social designation backed up by hogwash. We think we know what it means but it's really just hand-waving.