Often when a story like this comes up I go off on a search for clothing and accessories that help disrupt the AIs these cameras use. The attempts at this fall into 3 categories: works of art, college projects, and organizations that are no longer selling. One exception might be https://adversarialfashion.com/, though it seems focused on license plate readers.
Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
111–120 of 532 posts
Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
#112IMO the primary utility of Ring is for Amazon to surveil their delivery contractors, without a doorbell cam it’s trivial for a delivery person to set the package on the porch, photograph it as “proof of delivery”, and then walk away with said package. So the deterrent effect is good for the consumer in that it prevents theft, and good for Amazon because they can contract out to just about anyone to deliver packages,…
For bonus points they can then point the finger at the local thieves that happily try to identify and then shadow Amazon delivery contractors and steal valuable looking parcels based on whatever gut instinct they have for value based on size/shape/weight of the packages. Amazon proves the delivery and now it’s the local Polive Department’s problem. They are literally selling customers an excuse they can use later aga…
In a lot of jurisdictions the seller is liable for the package till the consumer receives it, often explicitly calling out doorstep delivery as being insufficient to remove that liability. The seller might separately have a claim against a carrier or thief, but the law is on the side of the consumer regardless of whatever else plays out. Plus, legalities aside, it's usually cheaper to satisfy the consumer than to take the long-term PR hit of their goods sold being costly gambles.
Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
#113My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…
I think you can set up a video camera pretty much anywhere you want, but there are a lot of laws about audio recording. I would check on your state's laws. I don't even think this would be covered by 1-party consent.
The front porch is a "public" area, in the sense that there's no expectation of privacy. It's as legal as if you were taking an iphone video or live photo of your car in the driveway and happened to catch the neighbor in the background.
Ring does have the ability to set "blackout zones" in the camera's FOV, and as a good neighbor the ring owner could have excluded the neighbor's driveway/porch with a few clicks.
Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
#114Often when a story like this comes up I go off on a search for clothing and accessories that help disrupt the AIs these cameras use. The attempts at this fall into 3 categories: works of art, college projects, and organizations that are no longer selling. One exception might be https://adversarialfashion.com/ , though it seems focused on license plate readers.
I think that they might be more likely to look at the pictures with a bunch of license plates on them
Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
In your example the thieves have nothing to do with Amazon or their drivers. I don’t understand how this could be construed as Amazon selling an excuse for something they’re not responsible for.
Amazon used to get stuck holding the bag. Now they can make the customer hold the bag.
I mean, the customer should hold the bag in that scenario. Amazon completed the delivery.
Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are alternative cameras that don't have the same privacy concerns.
Can you recommend some?
UniFi cameras are amazing. Superb video quality (better then so called "professional" cameras from the regular security companies), easy to setup (but still an order of magnitude more work then a Ring), self hostable, and from my experience highly reliable.
Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your houses are close together I don't think it's reasonable to have an expectation of privacy on the driveway or front porch. After all sound at normal speaking volume can easily travel 100 feet on a quiet day, if there's nothing in-between.
Privacy doesn't have to be a binary, GP probably expected a modicum of it in that they assumed their conversations could be heard by their neighbours should they be listening in at the time, but is uncomfortable at the idea of a digital record of each audible outdoor conversation being kept in perpetuity, that the neighbours and any third parties with access the footage could use against them if their relationship we…
You got it. I'm on my front porch, and clearly anyone on the street walking by could hear me. But to know that it's possible to record my entire conversation is creepy.
I've learned my lesson and now invite people to our backyard, which is free of any cameras.
Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
from your comment, it doesn't sound like anyone was deterred.
yeah my personal view is that these cameras do nothing except widen police surveillance capacity but I'm somewhat interested in what the people who buy them think they are doing.
Personally, I was motivated to get a Ring camera after a couple instances of porch theft. In the years since it has never happened again. So there is some deterrent value.
I would never install a smart device INSIDE my home. But I don’t see why people are freaking out about door/driveway cameras.
Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
#119I tend to drop a link to Motion when such subjects arise. It's been a stalwart companion for years and is usually in Linux repositories.
Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent
#120My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…
I think you can set up a video camera pretty much anywhere you want, but there are a lot of laws about audio recording. I would check on your state's laws. I don't even think this would be covered by 1-party consent.
You cannot record voice in Illinois for example. I'm pretty sure this is the case for most all party consent states.
If you post a video with voice online you are breaking the law in Illinois, unless all parties gave you consent. I don't even know how something like RING camera is legal since it is being uploaded to the cloud and the parties don't consent to it.
Edit: Illinois actually made some changes to the law, that allows recording of voice in public spaces.