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Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

theintercept.com

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Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#61
post #54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably any large metropolis.

I live in a big metropolis (Birmingham, UK), and have had no issues, The place I had it worst was when I lived in a cute 17th century village in the Oxford countryside. Had several packages stolen in the year I lived there.

Yeah, maybe it's more of certain problem people. It probably takes one bad apple to create a culture of theft.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

11 emergencies a year across the US sounds perfectly reasonable.

Sure. What were the emergencies though? Police knew a ring cam had evidence of a murder on it? Or police knew ring cam had some footage of where they dropped their keys last night? Who defines emergency? If its the police then anything they need it for is an emergency.

Also if it’s really an “emergency” then they should be able to use the existing warrant process

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#63

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

Ha, you'd hate me. I have cameras pointing out the front of my house that record my driveway, the road, and incidentally the neighbor's driveways and front yards and such. No audio, though.

But they're all cool with it, so there's that.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#64

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

If your houses are close together I don't think it's reasonable to have an expectation of privacy on the driveway or front porch. After all sound at normal speaking volume can easily travel 100 feet on a quiet day, if there's nothing in-between.

Privacy doesn't have to be a binary, GP probably expected a modicum of it in that they assumed their conversations could be heard by their neighbours should they be listening in at the time, but is uncomfortable at the idea of a digital record of each audible outdoor conversation being kept in perpetuity, that the neighbours and any third parties with access the footage could use against them if their relationship went sour (which it now seems it has...). The "expectation of privacy" argument should really only be used when discussing whether recording should be legal, not when determining whether someone is a jackass according to social norms.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what is a prowler. how does a camera prevent package theft? you get information about who took it but it doesn't prevent them from taking it, or get it back. deterrence only?

from your comment, it doesn't sound like anyone was deterred.

yeah my personal view is that these cameras do nothing except widen police surveillance capacity but I'm somewhat interested in what the people who buy them think they are doing.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#66

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

On one hand, it bothers me that I can't walk around the block without ending up on a dozen security cameras because everybody has a video doorbell. You can modify the motion and privacy zones to exclude certain areas such as the sidewalk, but I'm willing to bet most people do not do this. On the other hand, I've personally had success with the police and court systems based on video evidence I could provide from my d…

> You can modify the motion and privacy zones to exclude certain areas such as the sidewalk, but I'm willing to bet most people do not do this.

I have to do that or I get notifications constantly. I told my front cameras to only say something if someone shows up on my front step, or drives into my driveway. I don't want to get a notification every time someone walks down the sidewalk, or when the neighbors get home.

Although honestly, I get lots of notifications for the neighbors anyway. Because they seem to think a 30 foot wide road is narrow and they end up using my driveway regularly when getting into and out of their own. Not really a camera problem though.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#67
IMO the primary utility of Ring is for Amazon to surveil their delivery contractors, without a doorbell cam it’s trivial for a delivery person to set the package on the porch, photograph it as “proof of delivery”, and then walk away with said package.

So the deterrent effect is good for the consumer in that it prevents theft, and good for Amazon because they can contract out to just about anyone to deliver packages, no trust required (or, “trust but verify”)

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#68

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

I live in a block-long grouping of condos in Brooklyn. Every so often the management company sends out exterminators and one day as I was talking to him he pointed to these environmental monitors installed on a lamppost on our block. He says “what’s with that, the government spying on us?” and I explained it’s just some environmental data collectors, but pointed to my neighbor’s Ring and mentioned “although that thing records me every time I enter or leave my condo”. He said “oh, I have one of those, it’s great”. He didn’t think there was anything wrong with the fact that Amazon was sharing the videos with law enforcement without consent. The cognitive dissonance was maddening but not at all surprising.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#69

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

I would think (alas, I'm not a lawyer) that that's outright illegal in most of Europe.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#70
post #57

I mean, duh. The law obliged companies to turn over internet related data to law enforcement and not tell the data subject about it if law enforcement asks in the right way. This can be said of all data Amazon or any other tech company collects.

The full title of the article includes "WITHOUT A WARRANT".

The law doesn't oblige anyone to provide police with information without a warrant. Amazon is choosing to do this.

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