Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#51

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #38

unfocused wrote: post #31

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

If your houses are close together I don't think it's reasonable to have an expectation of privacy on the driveway or front porch. After all sound at normal speaking volume can easily travel 100 feet on a quiet day, if there's nothing in-between.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#52

Post by heywot » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:49 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #38

unfocused wrote: post #31

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

If your houses are close together I don't think it's reasonable to have an expectation of privacy on the driveway or front porch. After all sound at normal speaking volume can easily travel 100 feet on a quiet day, if there's nothing in-between.

There's a huge difference between casually overhearing a conversation because you also are outside versus having actions/words recorded for eternity, and potentially analyzed by a third party (Amazon, Google, etc).

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#53

Post by jakelazaroff » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

MichaelZuo wrote: post #38

unfocused wrote: post #31

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

If your houses are close together I don't think it's reasonable to have an expectation of privacy on the driveway or front porch. After all sound at normal speaking volume can easily travel 100 feet on a quiet day, if there's nothing in-between.

I think there's a difference between "expectation to not be incidentally seen or overheard" and "expectation to not be under constant surveillance".

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#54

Post by dm319 » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

xeromal wrote: post #37

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where the hell do you all live where this is a common problem? Out of all of my friend and relatives, 100s of people, none of them have ever complained about vandalism/theft.

Probably any large metropolis.

I live in a big metropolis (Birmingham, UK), and have had no issues, The place I had it worst was when I lived in a cute 17th century village in the Oxford countryside. Had several packages stolen in the year I lived there.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#55

Post by CubsFan1060 » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

MengerSponge wrote: post #40

I'll change my tune when news like this breaks about Apple, but I paid extra for a HomeKit video camera because Amazon's data policies give me heebie-jeebies. I get a notification and a live video on my TV when someone shows up on my doorstep, but not when someone walks by on the sidewalk. It's easy.

Do you use HomeKit cameras or HomeKit Secure Video cameras?

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#56

Post by lkxijlewlf » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

unfocused wrote: post #31

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

I would be having some fun.

Friend: Have you any success bringing your neighbors on board.

Me: There's been a setback. They're currently not speaking with me.

Friend: That is unfortunate. We're talking a lot of money.

Me: I know. I'll fix it.

Friend: You better.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#57

Post by johndhi » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:50 PM UTC

I mean, duh. The law obliged companies to turn over internet related data to law enforcement and not tell the data subject about it if law enforcement asks in the right way. This can be said of all data Amazon or any other tech company collects.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#58

Post by vorpalhex » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:52 PM UTC

dm319 wrote: post #47

unfocused wrote: post #31

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

I am also no fan of Ring or similar, though the reasons are slightly different. We lost our cat recently, and I went round my neighbourhood knocking/ringing on every door to ask around. It was a strange experience as around 30% had these ring doorbells. It was unpleasant to know I was being recorded and judged, and often as a result, not answered. I vowed at that point we would never consider one, if only because I d…

I had two suspicious people come to my door (separate incidents) which resulted in me getting a video doorbell (I'm going to migrate from a cloud one to a closed circuit one).

I've also had two cases of salespeople who didn't understand the phrase "not interested". One escalated to me threatening a trespass call before he left. (This is with No Soliciting signs clearly visible)

I worry my wife would not get the same effect.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#59

Post by ZoF » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:53 PM UTC

doublerabbit wrote: post #50

MichaelZuo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your houses are close together I don't think it's reasonable to have an expectation of privacy on the driveway or front porch. After all sound at normal speaking volume can easily travel 100 feet on a quiet day, if there's nothing in-between.

Its more than reasonable. It's called respect. Their house and their drive and just because voice could travel 100-feet sill doesn't mean they have the right to record it. If the speed limit is twenty and someone is driving thirty, does that give you the right to drive thirty too?

No post body was provided.

Re: Amazon admits giving police Ring camera footage without consent

#60

Post by treesknees » Wed, Jul 13, 2022, 3:54 PM UTC

unfocused wrote: post #31

My next door neighbor (we share a wall) had their bicycles stolen twice, so they installed Ring (floodlight) cameras in both the backyard and the front porch. After a year, the cameras have yielded no added security, or caught any "bad guys" as far as I can tell and from what they told me. What I realized, is they use it to keep track of their kids, funny cat videos that trigger the recording, and most importantly, a…

On one hand, it bothers me that I can't walk around the block without ending up on a dozen security cameras because everybody has a video doorbell. You can modify the motion and privacy zones to exclude certain areas such as the sidewalk, but I'm willing to bet most people do not do this.

On the other hand, I've personally had success with the police and court systems based on video evidence I could provide from my doorbell camera. Also, previously I had a long-lasting issue with a neighbor at my old house who would get really nasty about my yard and other issues (I suspected old age and mental issues) that completely ended once I put up a security camera to record the area he was doing this from.

If I do end up ever getting more security cameras, my plan is to show my neighbors exactly what angle they're recording and make sure they're OK with it. While I technically have the right to record whatever I want to in my state, I'd rather not make anyone feel uncomfortable. I recently came across a video where someone ended up pointing IR lasers at their neighbor's cameras and it was an effective way to disable the cameras without breaking any laws [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyYm2UwAaeQ