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The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

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Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#71

Post by Geee »

DennisP wrote: post #44

One drawback of Lightning is that if you want to receive funds, and you don't have a direct channel to the payer, then you have to be online. It's an interactive protocol, you can't just publish an address and check it later. Since most people don't run their own servers, LN is pretty much going to be a custodial system.

There is actually a solution for that, called Lightning Rod.[0] It should allow asynchronous payment flows when running LN nodes on a mobile device, which are offline most of the time. I'm not sure if it has been implemented yet (probably not).

[0] https://github.com/breez/LightningRod

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#72

Post by teekert »

Grumbledour wrote: post #63
teekert wrote: post #5

A cool use of the Lightning network is the podcast 2.0 initative. Currently, as I listen to podcasts, I stream back satoshis (sats), value for value (I use Castamatic on iOS, fountain.fm is also an option on Android). You can also send messages with sats attached, called “boosts”. Creators can transparantly split the sats they receive over various goals (i.e. FOSS projects [opensats], or guests on shows). There are n…

I really dislike this whole initiative and much prefer the patreon model. One reason of course might be that i am listening to Jupiter Broadcast and Chris pushes this stuff hard, really annoying me with the constant talk about lightning and especially the boosts, which seem to take over half the show, because somehow he seems not to realize that the problem he has in getting regular supporters is the insane price he…

Chris indeed pushes it hard, I think indeed too hard, I agree. But it's reducing and moving to other shows (like OfficeHours.hair). To him this is the response to centralization of podcasting and I see that. As a member (I do 8$ a month, supporting 1 show but listen to all) I also see the imbalance in the attention that 2ct boosts get. It will go 1 of 2 ways I guess: 1) Boosts become the main income and keep getting attention (but at some cutoff like with NoAgenda donations. 2) Boosts remain a minor part and the attention decreases. If I were you I'd sit it out and let Chris try.

I do like putting 100$ every (half?) year or so in my podcast app and letting the app distribute it over everything I listen to. But that's also because I'm at an age where I have disposable income. I pay for the membership to get the ads out of my fav podcast.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#75

Post by soulofmischief »

teekert wrote: post #5

A cool use of the Lightning network is the podcast 2.0 initative. Currently, as I listen to podcasts, I stream back satoshis (sats), value for value (I use Castamatic on iOS, fountain.fm is also an option on Android). You can also send messages with sats attached, called “boosts”. Creators can transparantly split the sats they receive over various goals (i.e. FOSS projects [opensats], or guests on shows). There are n…

It makes my eyes water sometimes when i see all of the cool things so many people on the planet are working on, and that they also have users.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#77

Post by azangru »

Hamuko wrote: post #47
once_inc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think is being exchanged on the Lightning Network? LN transactions are simply 2-of-2 multisig transactions made on-chain, where both parties can change the balance amongst themselves, and where settlement is possible at any moment. Bitcoin isn't being used as money on-chain. Why is this controversial? Bitcoin is the equivalent of gold, which was the hardest form of money that is accepted worldwide, before…

> Bitcoin is the equivalent of gold That definitely wasn't the original goal of Bitcoin though.

> That definitely wasn't the original goal of Bitcoin though.

What was the original goal of gold?

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#78

Post by simiones »

shudza wrote: post #50
arcticbull wrote: post #9

Lightning is a solution that does not do what it says on the tin. It requires an on-chain transaction to open a channel, which at current block size limits requires about 75 years for everyone on earth to have one, and somewhere in the trillion dollar range in fees and the entire outstanding block reward. Factor in quadratic routing complexity, and even if you did onboard everyone it wouldn't work anyways. This is as…

Some interesting points. IMHO, LN is far from THE solution. But it will help merchant adoption, more than end-user though. The fact is, most people would/will probably use custodial LN wallets, which is against some "crypto" postulates, and comes down to well known MySQL argument. The difference is MySQL on Bitcoin vs MySQL on USD (Paypal). As we will see in the coming months, fiat itself is a lot like a MySQL. So I…

> So I would argue that there is nothing wrong with MySQL on Bitcoin, and in fact, is an upgrade on fiat.

The fact that the USD didn't lose ~50% of its value in the last few months suggests the pro vs con is more mixed.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#79

Post by sillysaurusx »

FabHK wrote: post #39
tromp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> by reducing fees, the LN reduces the incentive for Bitcoin miners to use large amounts of computing power That's great for the environment, but in the long term of vanishing block subsidies, not so great for Bitcoin's security, as the costs of 51% or censorship attacks also decrease.

Fees have constituted just 1% to 2% of mining revenue over the last year (the other 99% being the mining reward ("coinbase") of 6.25 BTC per block). So, LN does not reduce the incentive for Bitcoin miners in any meaningful way, unless I'm mistaken.

That’s temporary. If you read the original white paper, satoshi designed bitcoin to be miner-free. “People will probably always be willing to verify transactions for free,” or something to that effect. The rewards will transition to that 1% fee as the entirety of their business model.

Re: The Lightning Network: Turning Bitcoin into Money

#80

Post by Grumbledour »

teekert wrote: post #72
Grumbledour wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike this whole initiative and much prefer the patreon model. One reason of course might be that i am listening to Jupiter Broadcast and Chris pushes this stuff hard, really annoying me with the constant talk about lightning and especially the boosts, which seem to take over half the show, because somehow he seems not to realize that the problem he has in getting regular supporters is the insane price he…

Chris indeed pushes it hard, I think indeed too hard, I agree. But it's reducing and moving to other shows (like OfficeHours.hair). To him this is the response to centralization of podcasting and I see that. As a member (I do 8$ a month, supporting 1 show but listen to all) I also see the imbalance in the attention that 2ct boosts get. It will go 1 of 2 ways I guess: 1) Boosts become the main income and keep getting…

You are right and i should not even have mentioned him, because i don't support him (though i wanted to once) and so really have no grounds to complain. I let my annoyance get the better of me and it seems just mean now when i reread it.

It also just undermines my skepticism and dislike of the podcasts 2.0 thing, which should have been my main point.

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