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How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

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Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#101

Post by jay_kyburz »

paskozdilar wrote: post #99
baby wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source = no strings attached. I don’t get the shaming of big users of open source. (And if we really want to get there: chrome, android, angular, etc.)

Technically, you are right. Free software provides freedom for every user to use the code in any way they want, and to distribute their changes to others at their own will - including never. However, I very much understand the sentiment - the same companies that keep all their code closed and mistreat their users with proprietary software use free software so they can make more proprietary software. It is antithetica…

GPL absolutely has strings attached.

I would say the most successful open source projects are all in the GPL family precisely because of the strings attached.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#102

Post by izacus »

mantas wrote: post #88
baby wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open source = no strings attached. I don’t get the shaming of big users of open source. (And if we really want to get there: chrome, android, angular, etc.)

Legally - yes. Morally.. not exactly. And shaming one of very few ways to tell big users that it'd be damn nice to chip in here and there.

Last time I checked most of popular OSS projects were predominantly developed by developers at big users on company time. So I don't get this shaming?

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#103

Post by izacus »

mjg59 wrote: post #79
wiseowise wrote: post #69

Why not ChromeOS?

I actually evaluated whether it was plausible to use a ChromeOS derivative as a workstation OS while I was at Google. At the time the answer was "no" for a bunch of reasons, including the following: 1) Crostini didn't integrate with the ChromeOS accessibility infrastructure, so it wasn't practical for users who required assistive technologies which meant gLinux would have to be supported anyway 2) While there is some…

Isn't Crostini just a Linux VM inside ChromeOS? So you'd still be running some other Linux distro (I'm guessing gLinux itself) and not actually using ChromeOS for development?

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#104

Post by zeruch »

baby wrote: post #84
raffraffraff wrote: post #71

Glad to see that they're planning on contributing more to the upstream. But considering the size and budget of Google, and the amount of free work they're getting from the Debian community, it would be utterly irresponsible not to . Not blaming the team that's doing this good work though - I'm sure they're working hard enough as it is.

Open source = no strings attached. I don’t get the shaming of big users of open source. (And if we really want to get there: chrome, android, angular, etc.)

I would agree on legal terms, but there is something to be said (and not positively) to leverage open source while not contributing in any meaningful way back, especially (as has occasionally been the case) they presume to make requests of said software maintainers.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#105

Post by sangnoir »

jay_kyburz wrote: post #101
paskozdilar wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, you are right. Free software provides freedom for every user to use the code in any way they want, and to distribute their changes to others at their own will - including never. However, I very much understand the sentiment - the same companies that keep all their code closed and mistreat their users with proprietary software use free software so they can make more proprietary software. It is antithetica…

GPL absolutely has strings attached. I would say the most successful open source projects are all in the GPL family precisely because of the strings attached.

> GPL absolutely has strings attached.

Only if you're redistributing the resulting work. If not, you do whatever you like.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#106

Post by paskozdilar »

sangnoir wrote: post #105
jay_kyburz wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPL absolutely has strings attached. I would say the most successful open source projects are all in the GPL family precisely because of the strings attached.

> GPL absolutely has strings attached. Only if you're redistributing the resulting work. If not, you do whatever you like.

Note that AGPL (Affero GPL) expands the attached strings to any kind of user-facing network interface.

So if you take AGPL code and make a Service-as-a-Software-Substitute with it, you're still legally obliged to provide source code to the users of your SaaSS.

In fact, AGPL is so badass that not even Google [0] wants to touch it with a 10 yard stick :)

[0] https://opensource.google/documentation/reference/using/agpl...

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#107

Post by paskozdilar »

izacus wrote: post #102
mantas wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally - yes. Morally.. not exactly. And shaming one of very few ways to tell big users that it'd be damn nice to chip in here and there.

Last time I checked most of popular OSS projects were predominantly developed by developers at big users on company time. So I don't get this shaming?

It can certainly seem that way with all the companies pretending to be free-software-friendly, but I don't think the percentage is that significant.

If you have any hard data you're willing to share, I'd be grateful for it.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#108

Post by kaeso »

eliaspro wrote: post #60
antoncohen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Container-Optimized OS is based on Chromium OS and is more of a traditional Linux, in the sense that is runs on servers. https://cloud.google.com/container-optimized-os/docs

...and so was CoreOS before the equally named company was acquired by RedHat.

In a funny twist of events, the author of the grandparent comment above yours was indeed building that OS (Container Linux) at CoreOS :)

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#109

Post by Wronnay »

Rolling Releases are basically my main reason why I choose Arch Linux over Debian.

It would be nice, if Google and Debian could team up together to bring a Debian Version with rolling releases.

Imagine the stability of Debian packages together with the easiness of upgrading an Arch Linux system - would be a dream for every server.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#110

Post by nicoco »

Wronnay wrote: post #109

Rolling Releases are basically my main reason why I choose Arch Linux over Debian. It would be nice, if Google and Debian could team up together to bring a Debian Version with rolling releases. Imagine the stability of Debian packages together with the easiness of upgrading an Arch Linux system - would be a dream for every server.

Funny, a stable release is the main reason why I choose Debian over anything else. I enjoy that it doesn't change too much. And for the occasional software for which I really want (rarely need) the upstream version, backports, flatpak, docker or compile from sources got me covered.

But the beauty of libre software is its diversity. Keep on using what you like ;)

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