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How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

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Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#41

Post by vinkelhake »

qmarchi wrote: post #35
vinkelhake wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average Googler doesn't get to pick the OS that their workstation runs. It's going to be Linux. The typical work setup is a browser, some kind of editor and terminals - which is something that works well in Linux.

It depends on the team, and the individual. Generally, a Googler does actually get to pick their OS, it's part of the onboarding process that every Noogler goes through, and you're given 30 days from your start to swap around and test the other platforms (gLinux, macOS, gWindows, or Chrome OS).

I was under the impression that unless you have an actual business need that calls for something other than gLinux, then it's going to be gLinux. Like a Chromium dev who primarily works on the Windows side of Chrome obviously has a need for it.

I'll fully admit that my onboarding experience is quite out of date since I've been there for a decade. When I joined I didn't really have a choice for workstation since I only worked on server side stuff. Sounds like things have changed.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#42

Post by _ZeD_ »

YPPH wrote: post #29

Out of curiosity, why would a Googler elect to use a Linux based workstation as opposed to a macOS workstation? Are they testing Linux binaries? Developing kernel extensions? Linux build tools? macOS offers such a superior desktop experience I can't imagine why else you'd ask an employer offering you a macOS machine to substitute it with a Linux one.

>>> macOS offers such a superior desktop experience

[citation needed]

I don't work at google, but, recently I had to discover macos at work, and boy the "desktop experience" you talk about sucks.

I miss my linux env (I have a slackware at home) and even my windows one (the old machines at work)

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#43

Post by watermelon0 »

csdvrx wrote: post #38
abeisgreat wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Source: Ex-googler for 5yrs) So first this comment is clearly influenced by your own preferences for MacOS. Stackoverflow Developer Survey shows irl about 40% of development is done on Windows, 30% Mac and 30% Linux. So the platforms are at least equally appealing in real world circumstances. Secondly Goobuntu was insanely well integrated with Google’s custom source control and internal ecosystem. No one actually di…

> So first this comment is clearly influenced by your own preferences for MacOS. I've always found very strange the love for MacOS professed by so many here on HN! > Stackoverflow Developer Survey shows irl about 40% of development is done on Windows, 30% Mac and 30% Linux. So the platforms are at least equally appealing in real world circumstances. Indeed. I use Windows and there's no amount of money you could pay m…

> I want an OLED screen, and there's no such option on MacOS.

Mini LED on M1 MBPs is not OLED quality, but it's quite close in many cases.

Additionally, in my experience (and from reading various reviews), M1 laptops are really quiet (fans are not loud even under load), have great battery life, and don't get nearly as hot as most (if not all) PC counterparts (under the same load conditions.)

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#44

Post by enasterosophes »

qmarchi wrote: post #34
YPPH wrote: post #29

Out of curiosity, why would a Googler elect to use a Linux based workstation as opposed to a macOS workstation? Are they testing Linux binaries? Developing kernel extensions? Linux build tools? macOS offers such a superior desktop experience I can't imagine why else you'd ask an employer offering you a macOS machine to substitute it with a Linux one.

Because almost all of our production fleet is Linux derived, it makes sense to use a platform that is nearly identical. Additionally, cost is a huge factor as well. Think about the cost of purchasing 100,000 macOS machines. Compare that to purchasing 100,000 generic x86_64 machines from several manufacturers, which are generally more friendly to customization for Google's needs. Feel free to ask questions! Disclaimer…

>Because almost all of our production fleet is Linux derived, it makes sense to use a platform that is nearly identical.

Yeah, it surprises me that more people who use Linux on their infrastructure don't also dogfood it on their personal machines. We run a Linux-based cloud, and my colleagues use a variety of OSes for their daily drivers; I definitely see a difference in capability between those who dogfood and those who think they can get by just fine on Windows or Mac.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#45

Post by esprehn »

vinkelhake wrote: post #41
qmarchi wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends on the team, and the individual. Generally, a Googler does actually get to pick their OS, it's part of the onboarding process that every Noogler goes through, and you're given 30 days from your start to swap around and test the other platforms (gLinux, macOS, gWindows, or Chrome OS).

I was under the impression that unless you have an actual business need that calls for something other than gLinux, then it's going to be gLinux. Like a Chromium dev who primarily works on the Windows side of Chrome obviously has a need for it. I'll fully admit that my onboarding experience is quite out of date since I've been there for a decade. When I joined I didn't really have a choice for workstation since I onl…

No they're the same. Pretty much all google3 work is done on Linux, but folks usually get 2 machines: a laptop you pick the OS and the workstation (or cloudtop) which is Linux unless there's a special need like chrome eng. Lots of folks do stuff like use Chrome OS + cider + cloudtop though.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#47

Post by pbamotra »

colordrops wrote: post #39

I'm surprised no one has mentioned NixOS. Easy rolling forward or back, with config, system snapshots, and cached binaries. Can roll individual packages or the whole system very easily.

From the article,

> Rolling releases with Linux distributions today are getting more common (Arch Linux, NixOS).

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#48

Post by YPPH »

abeisgreat wrote: post #36
YPPH wrote: post #29

Out of curiosity, why would a Googler elect to use a Linux based workstation as opposed to a macOS workstation? Are they testing Linux binaries? Developing kernel extensions? Linux build tools? macOS offers such a superior desktop experience I can't imagine why else you'd ask an employer offering you a macOS machine to substitute it with a Linux one.

(Source: Ex-googler for 5yrs) So first this comment is clearly influenced by your own preferences for MacOS. Stackoverflow Developer Survey shows irl about 40% of development is done on Windows, 30% Mac and 30% Linux. So the platforms are at least equally appealing in real world circumstances. Secondly Goobuntu was insanely well integrated with Google’s custom source control and internal ecosystem. No one actually di…

Thanks this is a great answer. So are the others, I think I poorly expressed my initial post.

I use Linux on the desktop myself. I can't justify the price, so I don't use Mac. But if my employer gave me a choice in the matter, I'd pick a macOS machine given - why not go for the fancier option? One where the UI, OS and hardware are tightly integrated. I can always download Debian for free any run it on anything. That's what I was wondering and what you've answered.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#49

Post by euank »

TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #24

I always thought creating your own rolling distro with Gentoo was precisely the best case use of portage, but I’ve never seen anyone do it. I must be missing something.

Coincidentally, Google has sorta done that too!

ChromiumOS/ChromeOS is built using portage, and is certainly rolling release. It's not really a traditional linux distro, but it's something.

Re: How Google got to rolling Linux releases for Desktops

#50

Post by YPPH »

qmarchi wrote: post #35
vinkelhake wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average Googler doesn't get to pick the OS that their workstation runs. It's going to be Linux. The typical work setup is a browser, some kind of editor and terminals - which is something that works well in Linux.

It depends on the team, and the individual. Generally, a Googler does actually get to pick their OS, it's part of the onboarding process that every Noogler goes through, and you're given 30 days from your start to swap around and test the other platforms (gLinux, macOS, gWindows, or Chrome OS).

I was certainly under the impression you got the choice, thanks for confirming that applies generally.
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