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Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

gds.blog.gov.uk

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Re: Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

#121

Post by skrebbel »

banach wrote: post #111
robga wrote: post #87

The June 2021 assessment [0] of the service notes that "the team will never be able to fully recoup their cost through a recharge model so will need to rely on centrally provided funding. This poses an important risk to the longevity of the product, as it is *dependent on political buy-in and budget from the Treasury*". [0] https://www.gov.uk/service-standard-reports/gov-dot-uk-platf...

A pathetic example of the ideological myopia that plagues Europe these days. States have provided services to their inhabitants since prehistory, and the notion that this infrastructure does not need financing is as healthy as a corporation that thinks it does not need to invest to succeed. At best, this strategy of living off of investments made by previous generations is doomed to underperform compared to states th…

> compared to states that take an active role in their own development.

I'm not sure I follow your argument. Which non-European states do you think do this well?

Re: Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

#122

Post by noahtallen »

banach wrote: post #111
robga wrote: post #87

The June 2021 assessment [0] of the service notes that "the team will never be able to fully recoup their cost through a recharge model so will need to rely on centrally provided funding. This poses an important risk to the longevity of the product, as it is *dependent on political buy-in and budget from the Treasury*". [0] https://www.gov.uk/service-standard-reports/gov-dot-uk-platf...

A pathetic example of the ideological myopia that plagues Europe these days. States have provided services to their inhabitants since prehistory, and the notion that this infrastructure does not need financing is as healthy as a corporation that thinks it does not need to invest to succeed. At best, this strategy of living off of investments made by previous generations is doomed to underperform compared to states th…

We don’t even have to zoom in on Europe. In the US, it’s quite common for folks to expect public services (like public transit or even the USPS) to be profitable. Which means these services don’t get the investment they really need.

Re: Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

#123

Post by sakisv »

tuukkah wrote: post #110

Key paragraph: " In parallel, we are starting a piece of joint work with the Central Digital & Data Office, in partnership with Chief Technology Officers (CTOs) across government, to understand what a future central hosting offer could or should be. We don’t know what we’ll conclude, the options ranging from doing nothing, to creating a reusable set of configuration and management components (similar to the GOV.UK De…

You'd think that this is something that would have be done before announcing the decommissioning in 18 months.

Re: Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

#124

Post by wyuenho »

kitbrennan wrote: post #102
wyuenho wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I realise I’m just replying to a troll’s cherry picked list at this point, but come on you’re not even trying. All of those chips and fabs all rely on ASML? Those manufacturers you list literally couldn’t make the chips they make without an EU company being the backbone of their work. You can’t think of global scale European applications. SAP, the worlds third largest software company by revenue? Representative of th…

Speaking of cherry-picking. Which European fab is ASML selling to? Being able to manufacture one machine for one stage of the process doesn't make an industry. Europe has some great niche companies, but has a real problem fostering an actual ecosystem.

Europe has sleep-walked into technological irrelevance since at least the early 2000s. In 10 years or so, all there's left in European tech that's competitive is going to be aviation, and agriculture and fashion if you count them as tech.

> People get real holiday, great purchasing power (sure, not as high as a US tech worker, but pretty darn good), healthcare that doesn’t bankrupt them, proper mental health treatment so walking down a street isn’t a gamble, great affordable education, and the pleasure of not having a mass shooting multiple times a week. But yeah, the US has some big companies. Good for you bud.

US tech workers have PTO, and Europe has mass shootings as well, and war and migrant crisis on the border. FANNG's profit is not just big, they are so massive, they dwarf many European countries' GDP.

The truth is hard to swallow, but if Europe doesn't recognize just how far behind you are, you are never going to catch up, or even better, produce some industrial leaders once in a while.

Re: Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

#125

Post by bennyp101 »

wyuenho wrote: post #92
wyuenho wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Quoted post unavailable.

So, what you are trying to say is: "Please stop sending us your well educated and skilled people - we need to spend more money on our country and citizens, not absurd wages for tech"?

That's super kind of you, I think Europe could get back on its feet with that kind of leg up.

Re: Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

#126

Post by tchalla »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #109
atwood22 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't feel bad. Europeans have a much better work-life balance. Plenty of parental leave. A culture that prioritizes life outside the office. Six weeks of guaranteed vacation that people actually take. Etc. Those things have a price. Namely, when people work less, less innovation happens, which means less productivity growth happens, which means less innovation happens, and so on. I lived in Germany for two years. I…

>Europeans have [...] Six weeks of guaranteed vacation that people actually take. That is false. EU mandates minimum 4 weeks of PTO across all members but varies wildly according to country, sector and company. In most EU countries I've seen the average tends to hover around 5 weeks while 6 weeks or more is usually for very generous employers trying to attract top applicants in employee friendly countries. I get you'…

> 4 weeks of PTO

There’s vacation and sick leave in most of EU. PTO is an acronym used in the US and the concept doesn’t apply in Europe.

Re: Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

#127

Post by atwood22 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #109
atwood22 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't feel bad. Europeans have a much better work-life balance. Plenty of parental leave. A culture that prioritizes life outside the office. Six weeks of guaranteed vacation that people actually take. Etc. Those things have a price. Namely, when people work less, less innovation happens, which means less productivity growth happens, which means less innovation happens, and so on. I lived in Germany for two years. I…

>Europeans have [...] Six weeks of guaranteed vacation that people actually take. That is false. EU mandates minimum 4 weeks of PTO across all members but varies wildly according to country, sector and company. In most EU countries I've seen the average tends to hover around 5 weeks while 6 weeks or more is usually for very generous employers trying to attract top applicants in employee friendly countries. I get you'…

You're not including bank holidays. The UK, for instance, has 20 days + 8-10 bank holidays. Italy has 20 + 10. Germany has 20 + 10. Denmark 25 + 11. France 25 + 11. Spain 22 + 14. Finland 25 + 11. I could go on...

Re: Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

#128

Post by tuukkah »

sakisv wrote: post #123
tuukkah wrote: post #110

Key paragraph: " In parallel, we are starting a piece of joint work with the Central Digital & Data Office, in partnership with Chief Technology Officers (CTOs) across government, to understand what a future central hosting offer could or should be. We don’t know what we’ll conclude, the options ranging from doing nothing, to creating a reusable set of configuration and management components (similar to the GOV.UK De…

You'd think that this is something that would have be done before announcing the decommissioning in 18 months.

Indeed. Perhaps the purpose of this message was to let all the projects know they get no advice but a permission and freedom to migrate anywhere. After a while, there may not be anyone to use a PaaS v2 anymore.

Re: Why we’ve decided to decommission Gov.uk PaaS

#129

Post by solarkraft »

Aloha wrote: post #114
banach wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pathetic example of the ideological myopia that plagues Europe these days. States have provided services to their inhabitants since prehistory, and the notion that this infrastructure does not need financing is as healthy as a corporation that thinks it does not need to invest to succeed. At best, this strategy of living off of investments made by previous generations is doomed to underperform compared to states th…

I don't know if this is a European wide problem or just a UK one.

Definitely applies to Germany. Our infrastructure is deeply fucked and we missed all the chances to innovate after 16 years of conservative rule, but the balance sheets look nice though.
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