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Russian gas flows to Europe

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Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#271
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you should read the article again and again and again. Zelenskyy was Holomoisky's protege and if he was calling for better relations with Russia years ago then perhaps Zelenskyy's regime should have listened, rather than follow the path which has precipitated this invasion by Russia.

I dont know why you think this war would have been avoided with 'better relations' with Russia, the only way that this would be avoided would have been if Ukraine became a vassal stake of Russia like Belarus is right now.

If you want to put this way how is Ukraine being a a vassal state of Russia that different from Germany being a vassal state of the US by submitting to sanctions blocking the opening of NordStream II which the Germans were looking forward to opening?

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#272
post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont know why you think this war would have been avoided with 'better relations' with Russia, the only way that this would be avoided would have been if Ukraine became a vassal stake of Russia like Belarus is right now.

If you want to put this way how is Ukraine being a a vassal state of Russia that different from Germany being a vassal state of the US by submitting to sanctions blocking the opening of NordStream II which the Germans were looking forward to opening?

Perhaps Germany thinks that economically hurting Russia is more important than finishing the pipeline?. There is not an option of vassal state of America or Russia. The choices are living under what is at least trying to be a democracy versus being a slave state to Russia.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#273
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to put this way how is Ukraine being a a vassal state of Russia that different from Germany being a vassal state of the US by submitting to sanctions blocking the opening of NordStream II which the Germans were looking forward to opening?

Perhaps Germany thinks that economically hurting Russia is more important than finishing the pipeline?. There is not an option of vassal state of America or Russia. The choices are living under what is at least trying to be a democracy versus being a slave state to Russia.

> Perhaps Germany thinks that economically hurting Russia is more important than finishing the pipeline?

Sounds like the guy holding a hammer before another guy and saying "I know you think I'm being cruel to you, but believe me when I say this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" and proceeds to strike how own shin hard with the hammer.

> The choices are living under what is at least trying to be a democracy versus being a slave state to Russia.

Oh there. That "democracy" word. Like how America waged long destructive wars in order to bring "democracy" to Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan resulting in 100s of thousands if not millions of deaths.

So now we are going to have a long war in the Ukraine for "democracy" which is nothing more than having gay pride parades.

America is that wonderful "democracy" where monthly insulin treatments cost hundreds of dollars, and the walking wounded in vehicle accidents would rather make their way to the hospital on their own rather than have an nearby ambulance take them for fear of the $3000 bills they may be hit with for a journey less than 30 minutes. The wonderful democracy when many families do not even have $400 of savings to weather a medical emergency. I would say low-income Americans are being terrorised with fear of destitution by the own "democratic" Govt, inspite of the US being the wealthiest country in the world.

There is as much democracy in Ukraine as there is in Russia. I believe Ukraine's ruling regime ranked lowest on the corruption index, and now its democratic leaders are the toast of the free world for standing against Russia.

A free world where bodily autonomy was rudely sacrificed for the sake of ineffectual Covid vaccines.

I could go on and on about the flaws of the "so-called" free world but you would find that boring.

Go read this - https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/06/20/thirty-years-of-u.s...

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#274
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-s... https://legacy-assets.eenews.net/open_files/assets/2017/07/0... https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-funding-environmental-g... https://www.newsweek.com/putin-funding-green-groups-discredi... https://www.transparency.org/en/press/germany-state-governme... https://www.eenews.net/articles/devin-nunes-claims-russia-is... in comparison how Russia deals with…

Are you seriously using an article quoting Devin Nunes as an authorative source?

and foxnews :) if those would be the only sources it would be garbage, but there are 6 seemingly independent ones stating same thing.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#275
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously using an article quoting Devin Nunes as an authorative source?

and foxnews :) if those would be the only sources it would be garbage, but there are 6 seemingly independent ones stating same thing.

You really should improve the quality of your sources before you start presenting things as fact.

"Seemingly" doesn't really do it for me, especially not when there is a concerted, well financed effort to pull the wool over your eyes.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#276
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That article is about the Stasi infiltrating the German Green Party. > Indeed, far from being an indictment of Stasi infiltration of the Greens, Gieseke and Bahr's study is a portrait of a largely failed attempt by the Communist German Democratic Republic (GDR) to co-opt the nascent left-wing party on the other side of the Iron Curtain. How did a few Stasi cooperators the 1980s Green Party translate into experts reco…

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jun/19/russia-s... https://legacy-assets.eenews.net/open_files/assets/2017/07/0... https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-funding-environmental-g... https://www.newsweek.com/putin-funding-green-groups-discredi... https://www.transparency.org/en/press/germany-state-governme... https://www.eenews.net/articles/devin-nunes-claims-russia-is... in comparison how Russia deals with…

OK that's a lot of reading (HN equivalent of a Gish Gallop?), but only one seems to be about Germany and it doesn't mention experts advising on the closure of nuclear plants, so I'm just going to assume there is indeed no source for your claims that any of them were on Russian payroll.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#277
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps Germany thinks that economically hurting Russia is more important than finishing the pipeline?. There is not an option of vassal state of America or Russia. The choices are living under what is at least trying to be a democracy versus being a slave state to Russia.

> Perhaps Germany thinks that economically hurting Russia is more important than finishing the pipeline? Sounds like the guy holding a hammer before another guy and saying "I know you think I'm being cruel to you, but believe me when I say this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you" and proceeds to strike how own shin hard with the hammer. > The choices are living under what is at least trying to be a democracy…

Ukraine is a sovereign country and they are fighting for their right to exist, Russia doesn’t believe they have that right.

Russia wishes to entirely wipeout Ukrainian culture and people from this planet.

This is less about “gay pride parades” and more about a country being a sovereign entity that is allowed to make its own decisions.

It’s clear that Russia doesn’t view a number of the post soviet states as sovereign.

Do you support this was from Russia?.

You should also know that America isn’t the only democracy in the world.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#278
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Eastern European countries this resentment almost surely already exists through some sort of “Russia’s Phoenix resurrected from the ashes”

Coming from Eastern Europe... Here the fear is that Western Europe will end up in bed with Putin and sell us off. Here anti-Russian notion was written in genes in cruel ways for generations

See since you have Lithuanian name I know for sure a lot of Lithuanian liberal youth whose parents still habitually watch Russian television, so I am not sure what you are talking about in regards to that "anti-Russian notion in genes", that's just plainly not true.

Re: Russian gas flows to Europe

#279
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coming from Eastern Europe... Here the fear is that Western Europe will end up in bed with Putin and sell us off. Here anti-Russian notion was written in genes in cruel ways for generations

See since you have Lithuanian name I know for sure a lot of Lithuanian liberal youth whose parents still habitually watch Russian television, so I am not sure what you are talking about in regards to that "anti-Russian notion in genes", that's just plainly not true.

Part of older generation does live in Russian media sphere. Tiny part of younger generation too. But combined that's definitely not a big part.

There're plenty of polls about views on Russian-Ukraine war. And views are pretty one sided.

Another division is people who were moved here by soviet government. It's not uncommon that the old generation, born outside of Lithuania, lives in Russian media, sometimes not even speaking Lithuanian after decades of living here. Yet their (grand)children are well integrated into Lithuanian society, including anti-Russian notion.

.... and then we have our own bunch of Russofiles for various reasons. Including among youth, and even what you'd call liberal youth. Some famous people now do incredible stunts to cover pre-Russian-invasion actions. While others stick to their guns.

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