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Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

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Re: Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

#21

Post by iand »

icebraining wrote: post #12
eftpotrm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what about those online poker companies that are not based in the USA? Why should they comply with USA law? If Klout are collecting and storing data on UK individuals, they are subject to UK data protecction law. The ease of enforcing that if they don't have a UK operation is another matter, but they are still interacting with UK users in a way which triggers UK rights under UK laws, with which UK courts could re…

And what about those online poker companies that are not based in the USA? Why should they comply with USA law? I don't know. When were they forced to?

More details here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/225367/executives_with_online...

Re: Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

#22

Post by alexchamberlain »

jackgavigan wrote: post #17
icebraining wrote: post #4

But is Klout incorporated or hosted in the UK or EU? If not, how exactly do they violate UK law? I mean, pornography is illegal in many countries, but that doesn't mean a US pornographic website is illegal, even if it's available to citizens of that country.

You've hit the nail on the head. A company is only subject to UK law if it operates from the UK. Facebook's European office is in Dublin, which is why it is subject to Irish/EU privacy legislation.When Twitter establishes its European office, it will similarly become subject to the same laws. As far as I know, Klout has no UK/EU presence so it's not subject to these laws.

I wonder if this is entirely true... By accepting registration from EU users, are they operating in the EU and thereby subject to EU law?

Re: Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

#24

Post by vidarh »

icebraining wrote: post #10
MattBearman wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But (I'm pretty sure) it would be illegal for someone from a no-pornography country to view a US porn site. So my understanding is what klout does is 'fine' for US users, but gathering data on UK/EU users is subject to EU data protection laws. And of course, IANAL

But (I'm pretty sure) it would be illegal for someone from a no-pornography country to view that site. Using that analogy, then it would be Stross the one committing the offense, not Klout? So my understanding is what klout does is 'fine' for US users, but gathering data on UK/EU users is subject to EU data protection laws. That would be the same as it being illegal for a US site to distribute pornography to a person…

> The fact is, unless Klout is hosted or incorporated in the UK or EU, the latter have no jurisdiction over the company, and such their laws don't apply.

Jurisdiction is up for the court and legislative to decide.

I do believe that UK courts will assert jurisdiction in cases such as this. UK courts certainly do assert worldwide jurisdiction in other situations - one of several reasons why UK courts are so popular for people who wish to sue for libel, for example.

Re: Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

#25

Post by cabalamat »

rmc wrote: post #8
icebraining wrote: post #4

But is Klout incorporated or hosted in the UK or EU? If not, how exactly do they violate UK law? I mean, pornography is illegal in many countries, but that doesn't mean a US pornographic website is illegal, even if it's available to citizens of that country.

Exactly, unless they have a EU office, then they don't have to do anything. (In the same way Mr. Stross is free to say that Taiwan is not part of China (violate PRC law) or deny the holocaust happened (violate German law)). The reason Facebook is being hounded is because they have an EU incorporated company.

> Mr. Stross is free to deny the holocaust happened (violate German law)

While it is true that holocaust denial is legal in the UK, that doesn't stop the UK authorities detaining people for it -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Fredrick_T%C3%B6ben#2008...

Re: Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

#26

Post by cstross »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #22
jackgavigan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've hit the nail on the head. A company is only subject to UK law if it operates from the UK. Facebook's European office is in Dublin, which is why it is subject to Irish/EU privacy legislation.When Twitter establishes its European office, it will similarly become subject to the same laws. As far as I know, Klout has no UK/EU presence so it's not subject to these laws.

I wonder if this is entirely true... By accepting registration from EU users, are they operating in the EU and thereby subject to EU law?

That's my understanding.

Re: Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

#27

Post by alexchamberlain »

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #15
rmc wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes http://europe-v-facebook.org/ . It's possible because Facebook has a EU company, and hence is bound by EU law.

I'm not sure you even need an EU company, just to be doing business in the EU. An opposite example is Rovio in Finland are being sued under US patent law by some bunch of patent trolls or other (and it's the Finnish Rovio office rather than any US subsidy named in the suit).

But there are international treaties relating to Patents - none for privacy.

Re: Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

#28

Post by salvadors »

alexchamberlain wrote: post #22
jackgavigan wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've hit the nail on the head. A company is only subject to UK law if it operates from the UK. Facebook's European office is in Dublin, which is why it is subject to Irish/EU privacy legislation.When Twitter establishes its European office, it will similarly become subject to the same laws. As far as I know, Klout has no UK/EU presence so it's not subject to these laws.

I wonder if this is entirely true... By accepting registration from EU users, are they operating in the EU and thereby subject to EU law?

I don't believe so. If I walk into a store in New York and tell them I'm from the UK, they won't suddenly become subject to UK/EU law if they choose to serve me. I'm the one subjecting myself to US law if I shop there, not vice versa.

Further, even if they were subject to EU law on this, how would any action for a breach be enforced?

Re: Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

#29

Post by salvadors »

CurtHagenlocher wrote: post #3

Why does Klout in particular seem to piss off so many people? If the text he cites from the Data Protection law were to be interpreted broadly enough to make Klout illegal in the UK, wouldn't it also cover the information about you that Google and Bing collect and process?

Without defending Klout, who do seem to go somewhat further than others on this front, the Data Protection Law in the UK isn't quite as strict as the post implies. The issue of consent, for example, is part of a chain of ors, not ands — i.e. it's a sufficient but not necessary condition for processing someone's personal data. If consent was always required for anyone to ever do anything with your information, the press, for example, would never be able to publish critical articles about anyone.

Re: Stross: Klout violates UK privacy laws.

#30

Post by alexchamberlain »

salvadors wrote: post #28
alexchamberlain wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if this is entirely true... By accepting registration from EU users, are they operating in the EU and thereby subject to EU law?

I don't believe so. If I walk into a store in New York and tell them I'm from the UK, they won't suddenly become subject to UK/EU law if they choose to serve me. I'm the one subjecting myself to US law if I shop there, not vice versa. Further, even if they were subject to EU law on this, how would any action for a breach be enforced?

But you are on US soil when you walk into that shop. There are many examples of UK firms not selling to US clients - poker firms, National Lottery...
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