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U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

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Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#41

Post by bee_rider »

willhinsa wrote: post #28
bee_rider wrote: post #11

I wonder how much these measurements actually matter, for a place like Columbia. I mean, I can see why, like, people might want to look at the list and see "hey this school I've never heard of is actually OK." But like, people don't find out about Columbia from this list, right? It is, uh, older than the country "U.S. News" is named after and an Ivy League school. Not having them on the list just reflects poorly on t…

On the other hand, Coca-Cola spends 4 billion of dollars every year on advertising.

Yeah.

I dunno, nothing about advertising makes sense to me, so I guess I have trouble evaluating this kind of thing.

Common sense would tell you that you don't give 4 billion dollars to the guy who says "I'm really good at convincing people to part with their money -- whether they should or not!" But then I don't run Coca Cola, so I guess they've figured out something I've missed.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#42

Post by genewitch »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #18
hackyhacky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your suspicion is correct. I've taught at several US universities, and it's an open secret that the administrative takes steps to manipulate numbers in order to secure better rankings. Typical example: a small, prestigious liberal arts college always has smaller class sizes in the fall semester than in the spring semester. Why? Because classes with less than 30 students are ranked higher by US News, but they only tak…

> Because classes with less than 30 students are ranked higher by US News, but they only take into consideration the fall semester. No one cares about class sizes in the spring. What a bizarre and totally unnecessary restriction.

Parents helping/guiding their near-adult children in the final spring of highschool to apply at or choose universities, where they would start university that same fall seem to be the target audience, here. Fall is when "most" incoming freshmen will start.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#44

Post by saagarjha »

Kind of sad that US News decided to unrank just Columbia rather than suspending the whole thing. If one college games your ranking to the point that a professor from the university is like "hey you guys this seems pretty sus", it's probably true that all the other universities have the same problem and just don't have anyone willing to talk about it. As it stands it seems like just Columbia did something wrong, when they are the only university that did something wrong but also had someone who did something right.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#45

Post by lumost »

hackyhacky wrote: post #7
burlesona wrote: post #3

Per the article this came in response to questions raised by a Columbia faculty member critiquing the university's data. I thought that report[1] was actually more interesting than the original article. As per the quote at the top of the report: > Rankings create powerful incentives to manipulate data and distort institutional behavior for the sole or primary purpose of inflating one’s score... It would be shocking t…

Your suspicion is correct. I've taught at several US universities, and it's an open secret that the administrative takes steps to manipulate numbers in order to secure better rankings. Typical example: a small, prestigious liberal arts college always has smaller class sizes in the fall semester than in the spring semester. Why? Because classes with less than 30 students are ranked higher by US News, but they only tak…

Why is small class size a good thing? Anecdotally, you get better class material and TA staff in larger lectures. Why aren't Universities able to innovate here?

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#46

Post by myko »

saalweachter wrote: post #33
kens wrote: post #26

There's a very interesting article "How to Game the College Rankings" about how Northeastern University's president focused on improving the university's ranking. In 1996, it was a "third-tier, blue-collar, commuter-based university" rated #162. The new university president had a singleminded goal: to improve the ranking. He got the university into the top 100 in 2006 and into the top 50 by 2013. https://www.bostonma…

Now the interesting question: did Northwestern^H^H^H^H^H^H^Heastern get meaningfully better for students between 1996 and 2013? Did they graduate in higher numbers? Did they have better career outcomes? Did more get into better(?) grad schools? What is their median income? Are they happier, did they enjoy college more?

Northeastern.

Northwestern was already relatively prestigious.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#47

Post by genericone »

lbarrow wrote: post #20
function_seven wrote: post #9

In the same way that one restaurant flouted Yelp ratings[1], couldn't all the Ivy League schools just refuse to participate in US News' annual rankings? What would happen if Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, et. al. decided that this ranking is not helpful, so they won't supply any info? Readers of US News would more likely start to lose trust in the rankings rather than move their assessments of the Ivies downward…

These rankings consistently tell people that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, etc are the best schools in the country. Why would they boycott rankings that praise them?

Because it puts other 'less desirable' non-elite schools in the same lists for top twenty/thirty/forty, etc.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#48

Post by bbor »

lumost wrote: post #45
hackyhacky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your suspicion is correct. I've taught at several US universities, and it's an open secret that the administrative takes steps to manipulate numbers in order to secure better rankings. Typical example: a small, prestigious liberal arts college always has smaller class sizes in the fall semester than in the spring semester. Why? Because classes with less than 30 students are ranked higher by US News, but they only tak…

Why is small class size a good thing? Anecdotally, you get better class material and TA staff in larger lectures. Why aren't Universities able to innovate here?

Many courses rely on discussion!

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#49

Post by twobitshifter »

burlesona wrote: post #3

Per the article this came in response to questions raised by a Columbia faculty member critiquing the university's data. I thought that report[1] was actually more interesting than the original article. As per the quote at the top of the report: > Rankings create powerful incentives to manipulate data and distort institutional behavior for the sole or primary purpose of inflating one’s score... It would be shocking t…

It’s like doping in cycling. Everyone was getting caught but we’re supposed to believe the couple who snuck through weren’t like the rest. Once the tests got good enough there was hardly any one left standing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#50

Post by ghaff »

lumost wrote: post #45
hackyhacky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your suspicion is correct. I've taught at several US universities, and it's an open secret that the administrative takes steps to manipulate numbers in order to secure better rankings. Typical example: a small, prestigious liberal arts college always has smaller class sizes in the fall semester than in the spring semester. Why? Because classes with less than 30 students are ranked higher by US News, but they only tak…

Why is small class size a good thing? Anecdotally, you get better class material and TA staff in larger lectures. Why aren't Universities able to innovate here?

For liberal arts? It's probably a pretty interactive format and smaller interactive classes are better than large classes that are more broadcast. (Often. I've also had great lecturers in the humanities.) But mostly don't look at many liberal arts classes (or case study, etc.) through the lens of an engineering lecture.
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