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U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

forbes.com

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Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#31

Post by peanuty1 »

bee_rider wrote: post #11

I wonder how much these measurements actually matter, for a place like Columbia. I mean, I can see why, like, people might want to look at the list and see "hey this school I've never heard of is actually OK." But like, people don't find out about Columbia from this list, right? It is, uh, older than the country "U.S. News" is named after and an Ivy League school. Not having them on the list just reflects poorly on t…

I imagine there is value in being in the same company of more prestigious schools like Harvard and Princeton.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#32

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

burlesona wrote: post #3

Per the article this came in response to questions raised by a Columbia faculty member critiquing the university's data. I thought that report[1] was actually more interesting than the original article. As per the quote at the top of the report: > Rankings create powerful incentives to manipulate data and distort institutional behavior for the sole or primary purpose of inflating one’s score... It would be shocking t…

This is a good example of Campbell's Law at work: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campbell%27s_law

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#33

Post by saalweachter »

kens wrote: post #26

There's a very interesting article "How to Game the College Rankings" about how Northeastern University's president focused on improving the university's ranking. In 1996, it was a "third-tier, blue-collar, commuter-based university" rated #162. The new university president had a singleminded goal: to improve the ranking. He got the university into the top 100 in 2006 and into the top 50 by 2013. https://www.bostonma…

Now the interesting question: did Northwestern^H^H^H^H^H^H^Heastern get meaningfully better for students between 1996 and 2013?

Did they graduate in higher numbers? Did they have better career outcomes? Did more get into better(?) grad schools? What is their median income? Are they happier, did they enjoy college more?

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#34

Post by peanuty1 »

dataphyte wrote: post #2

US colleges foresee a future where they are under attack for being absurdly selective, what some are now calling being "highly rejective". I think they want to avoid being targeted by the fairness wonks anymore than they already are. Also, US News and World Report rankings have major problems, for instance, the ranking algorithm considers campus aesthetics and food quality, but doesn't account for price, giving schoo…

> the ranking algorithm considers campus aesthetics and food quality.

wtf

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#36

Post by epgui »

For all of the ways we can easily criticize the incentive structures and possible intentionality behind these bad numbers (which I agree merit scrutiny), I think it's worth noting and remembering that the issue was flagged by a mathematics professor of the same university: there is at least some well-aligned incentives, some measure of self-regulation, with respect tenured positions and academic freedom.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#38

Post by zerocrates »

bogota wrote: post #19
hackyhacky wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your suspicion is correct. I've taught at several US universities, and it's an open secret that the administrative takes steps to manipulate numbers in order to secure better rankings. Typical example: a small, prestigious liberal arts college always has smaller class sizes in the fall semester than in the spring semester. Why? Because classes with less than 30 students are ranked higher by US News, but they only tak…

Great to know many peoples graduations were delayed so someone could game some numbers

I think they mean the size of individual classes, so they're paying for more sections/instructors/instruction time in the ranking-relevant periods.

Though shrinking the admit size is another well worn tactic, as it's the easiest way to increase how "selective" you are which is another major ranking element, plus it helps you more cheaply achieve smaller average class sizes, though of course you're forgoing some revenue to get there.

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#39

Post by [deleted] »

saalweachter wrote: post #33
kens wrote: post #26

There's a very interesting article "How to Game the College Rankings" about how Northeastern University's president focused on improving the university's ranking. In 1996, it was a "third-tier, blue-collar, commuter-based university" rated #162. The new university president had a singleminded goal: to improve the ranking. He got the university into the top 100 in 2006 and into the top 50 by 2013. https://www.bostonma…

Now the interesting question: did Northwestern^H^H^H^H^H^H^Heastern get meaningfully better for students between 1996 and 2013? Did they graduate in higher numbers? Did they have better career outcomes? Did more get into better(?) grad schools? What is their median income? Are they happier, did they enjoy college more?

[deleted]

Re: U.S. News pulls Columbia University from its 2022 rankings

#40

Post by nonameiguess »

mbesto wrote: post #8
burlesona wrote: post #3

Per the article this came in response to questions raised by a Columbia faculty member critiquing the university's data. I thought that report[1] was actually more interesting than the original article. As per the quote at the top of the report: > Rankings create powerful incentives to manipulate data and distort institutional behavior for the sole or primary purpose of inflating one’s score... It would be shocking t…

Which begs the question - if you want to get top in rankings wouldn't you simply design the school around the objective ranking parameters and nothing else? Ripe for abuse...

Not sure if this is still true, but at one point, the biggest factor in the ranking was peer reputation rating. That kind of results in a self-reinforcing vicious cycle of top schools remaining top schools, but short of bribery, there isn't really any way to manipulate that at least.
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