I should have loved biology • Hacker News Board

Re: I should have loved biology

#261

Post by RugnirViking » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 12:11 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #235

dinvlad wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure - and I don't think we necessarily have the ANYONE part either :-) The reason for that is folks who build systems often leave, and the details of why or even how they did something leave with them. At some point, there's no one in the company who understands certain things. And the analogy with biology actually goes even further - just like in software, we "know" the code (DNA), but how does that translate t…

So someone builds something and they leave, and you can’t figure out their code? Or more importantly, you’re suggesting it’s impossible to figure out that code by anyone? Seems a stretch don’t you think?

he's not saying it's impossible to figure out some piece of code, but "all" code. There is just too much of it! Going into even something as relatively simple as an operating system, let alone a whole ecosystem with drivers, internet protocols & more would take many lifetimes.

The "anyone" part comes because there are countless parts of those infinately complex systems that have no documentation and no maintainers. They can individually be reverse engineered if it is needed in an individual case, but nobody is going to do that for most of them.

Re: I should have loved biology

#262

Post by dmontero » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 12:11 PM UTC

rwnspace wrote: post #251

verisimi wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you're labouring under the illusion that education is for your good as opposed to the good of those who manage people? Why change a winning formula?

The practical purpose of public schooling is to A) catch the odd prodigy to send to the big leagues with the private school kids, B) get the well-behaved used to 9-5 hours, and C) have somewhere to keep the rest while the parents work. University used to be just the first group, nowadays it includes the second.

I guess your comment is provocative intentionally. There are many countries in the world where - thankfully- certain public schools/universities are more prestigious than private ones (it comes to mind Germany, Switzerland, Spain, France). About B) and C) I sort of agree though

Re: I should have loved biology

#263

Post by balfirevic » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 12:12 PM UTC

SyzygistSix wrote: post #258

valenterry wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I would add that one aspect of this training is the ability to deal with subjects student isn't particularly interested in. What good does it do? I don't think that you improve the ability to ingest irrelevant information and make them stick. What you can do is to try to trick your brain into thinking it's relevant - but then, why not make it relevant? In the end, we don't learn for nothing, we learn because it…

It teaches you that you don't just get to do that things you are good at and enjoy, which is an important life lesson.

Aren't you going to learn that eventually, out of necessity? But hey, this way you get to start hating the school (including the interesting parts - if there are any left) and you might also get the (incorrect) impression that the only reason you need to do things you don't enjoy is because some assholes decided that you must. Great life lesson.

Re: I should have loved biology

#264

Post by hoseja » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 12:13 PM UTC

MereInterest wrote: post #121

gilleain wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must be running on slower code, as I can't quite unpack that. So the code in life is the DNA which is also the 'runtime'?

Proteins are the runtime on which DNA is executed, because they are the mechanism that "reads" DNA. But proteins are the compiled output of DNA, because they are the result of "reading" DNA. So the DNA defines the runtime environment that is necessary for DNA to run.

Perhaps the ribosome would be the runtime?

Re: I should have loved biology

#265

Post by sethammons » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 12:35 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #195

_dain_ wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or the physics of the bicycle itself! It can stay up even without a rider.

It took me a long time to figure out how I made a turn on a bicycle. No, it's not just turning the steering wheel in the direction you want to turn. You actually slightly turn it the other way, then the bike tilts into the turn you want to make, and you turn the steering wheel into the turn to stop the tilt from turning into a crash. It all happens so subtly, and your body does it perfectly with no input from the bra…

It is a fun one to show new or inexperienced riders. "Now that we are coasting, what do you think a slight push forward of your left hand will do to the bike?"

Re: I should have loved biology

#266

Post by valenterry » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 12:53 PM UTC

SyzygistSix wrote: post #258

valenterry wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I would add that one aspect of this training is the ability to deal with subjects student isn't particularly interested in. What good does it do? I don't think that you improve the ability to ingest irrelevant information and make them stick. What you can do is to try to trick your brain into thinking it's relevant - but then, why not make it relevant? In the end, we don't learn for nothing, we learn because it…

It teaches you that you don't just get to do that things you are good at and enjoy, which is an important life lesson.

I think pretty much every child learns that lesson way before they even enter school.

Re: I should have loved biology

#267

Post by EthanIsADev » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 1:21 PM UTC

technological wrote: post #180

intrasight wrote: post #178

I dropped out of tech after a couple years to go study neuroscience. Even though I returned to software, I do not regret for a second that I went to study something so broad and deep and mysterious. I know that huge areas of neuroscience will remain opaque to science for decades to come. I am blessed to have had a few years contact with that complexity and mystery. If anyone reading this, at any age, wants to take bi…

Do you suggest any starting material or steps on how to get started

I would love to know as well. I have always been interested in Neuroscience from the outside but have had no idea where to start.

Re: I should have loved biology

#268

Post by spopejoy » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 1:55 PM UTC

rwnspace wrote: post #251

verisimi wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you're labouring under the illusion that education is for your good as opposed to the good of those who manage people? Why change a winning formula?

The practical purpose of public schooling is to A) catch the odd prodigy to send to the big leagues with the private school kids, B) get the well-behaved used to 9-5 hours, and C) have somewhere to keep the rest while the parents work. University used to be just the first group, nowadays it includes the second.

I thought it was to create consumers for Mr Ford...

Re: I should have loved biology

#269

Post by throwawayarnty » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

Biology is particularly difficult to learn in school or from any book because one cannot “do” much biology on pen and paper.

Math, physics, and certain parts of chemistry can actually be done on pen and paper (or by computer simulations) because it is based on solid theory with mathematical underpinnings.

The only solid foundation biology has is descriptive theories from Darwin and maybe Mendel. All other biology must be studied through experimental data, which means wet lab and analysis. Just reading about a result (which is how school is done) doesn’t mean you are a good biologist no matter how well you can regurgitate the textbook.

Re: I should have loved biology

#270

Post by throwawayarnty » Mon, Jul 11, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

todd8 wrote: post #186

I had been putting off quantum physics and time was running out. I was worried forth semester physics at MIT was going to be tough, but then through some miracle of providence the EE department decided that a solid state chemistry chemistry class plus Into to Biology could be substituted for quantum physics. Because I had already taken a solid state chemistry class, all I had to do was take a basic introductory biolo…

The interesting thing is that knowing these facts has no correlation with whether you are a good biologist.

Real biology involves designing clever wet lab experiments, analysing data to predict new phenomenon, then following up with more experiments.

Nothing in real life biology relies on knowing a huge amount of facts. You just look it up on google.

What makes biology hard to teach is that there are no principles. So teacher can just point to experimental results and ask students to memorise those results. Real biology is about saying the textbooks are all wrong and here is how it really works.