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The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

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Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#461

Post by vintermann »

ConstantVigil wrote: post #219
xbar wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope no one misses the implied /s regarding CSM. The Christian Science Monitor is a model of great reporting in a time when few models exist. I am saddened when someone downplays a CSM report as biased because the listener assumes some form of Christian fundamentalism.

So, I'm not alone in wondering if they should be treated like bible thumpers, or not. Good to know. Also good to know they aren't bible thumpers, and just happen to be 'Christians' monitoring science, as per the name implies.

That would be wrong too. I don't know who said it, but a well known quip about them is that they are neither Christian nor scientific. (It may actually have been Mark Twain for once, he had a brief disappointing interaction with them).

They believe Jesus (but mostly the founder, Mary Baker Eddy) came with secret knowledge of how you can heal by thinking the right thoughts. This is possible because, basically, objective reality is an illusion/all in your mind. On the heresy scale, if JW is a 3 and Mormonism is 4, i would say Christian Science is 10.

They regularly come up in the news when their kids die from rejecting medical treatment in favour of faith healing (or maybe correct-thinking healing is more accurate).

CSM lost almost all its connection to CS along with the decline of the cult's popularity.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#462

Post by vintermann »

shp0ngle wrote: post #126
edvards wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tell about the two others?

The Epoch Times is owned by Falun Gong. (They are apocalyptic/UFO/meditation cult, they have been banned in China and, if you believe their claims, organ harvested. I don’t know how much to believe those claims, but China does keep a lot of things with organs weirdly secret. FG are present at every anti-Chinese protest. They also do the Chinese ballet which name I forgot now…. ah yeah Shen Yun) I don’t know any other…

You don't have to trust them, the organ harvesting is well documented and criticized by human rights organizations. Don't make the mistake of being agnostic about their victimization just because they are an usympathetic right wing person cult.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#463

Post by vintermann »

donatj wrote: post #227
NikolaNovak wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you on "replace it with any religion" but I don't find it bigotry necessarily - I am averse to any and all religious influence on anything, and I'm happy to see it brought up to attention and awareness everywhere. As to the frequent Venn diagram overlap of locally predominant religion with corresponding country / nationality / ethnicity / etc, while that frequently the case, I agree we should focus on th…

> think twice before giving them money because you'd be supporting the late George Bush Sr's 2nd-favorite cult. > They also own The Washington Times and United Press International (UPI). > And True World Foods, which runs a major portion of the sushi trade in the US. > Numerous other innocent-sounding organizations in many, many sports, interest groups, and industries. Like if someone wrote any of that about Jews, th…

I'm prepared to say it about any tightly centrally controlled cult that uses front groups. Including Jewish ones, should I find any. (Though, Judaism has enough diversity that even if such one existed, it would not reflect on other religious Jews, let alone people who are Jews only in the culture/ethnicity sense).

It's not only about religion either. There are also political cults that employ large number of front groups, like the Danish Tvind.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#464

Post by dmurray »

hatenberg wrote: post #413
naniwaduni wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Western chess pieces don't fall over like dominoes either, since they're usually kind of rounded...

Western Chess, they got cowboy hats? Asking for a Persian friend...

I'm talking about the game codified in Europe in the late middle ages, and known as "chess" throughout the English-speaking world today.

It doesn't make sense to attribute its origins to Persia in the context of specifically distinguishing it from other shatranj/chaturanga derivatives, like shogi.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#465

Post by scaramanga »

makeitdouble wrote: post #454
scaramanga wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only if it was supporting a muslims/chinese/palestinians who are known for their vociferous support of the republican party? I mean, these groups tend to be ultra-right wing and the Korean ultra-right are very supportive of the japanese ultra-right wing, like Abe, who is grandson of Nobusuke Kishi, "the devil of manchuria" and thinks grandpa was a lovely guy. Edit: Nobusuke, not Nobuo, Nobuo is the other grandson who…

The issue would be to bring all that cult and culturally heavy discussion in the spotlight when there's still a chance it's completely irrelevant to the incident. The same way we wouldn't be digging deep on where the guy ate at lunch if there wasn't enough link (I know some newspaper do, but imo they shouldn't)

My point is that there are much more interesting discussions to be had, like how Abe's grandfather was a class A war criminal who the US sprung from prison and spared the death penalty cos they thought he would be a good pro-US element in Japanese politics. How he then founded the party Abe is a member of. Or any of what Abe's politics are. But there is zero mention of any of it in any western press... ever... Even when very relevant events are happening. Even, for example, when China and South Korea are united in condemnation. Which is strange, because aren't South Korea and Japan supposed to be allies with the US, and all about containing China?

So I'm wondering why the "suppression" of that news is so much less interesting than the "suppression" of whatever gobbledygook Crazy McShootyFace believes?? :)

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#466

Post by vintermann »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #293
mlyle wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one can be particularly legitimately concerned about religions that: * directly accumulate controlling ownership interests in key businesses. * use dubious fundraising and recruitment practices. * form complex webs of not-obviously-related entities to use in influence operations. * have acted as a pseudo-cult of personality of a figure in living memory. * are possibly abusive to their members in various ways.

Doesn't that cover most organized religions?

Obviously not. And conversely, it does cover some political cults.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#467

Post by vintermann »

freeopinion wrote: post #424
zopa wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It surely goes in cycles in the US. Adams, Harrison, Roosevelt, Kennedy, Bush, Clinton. That spans the entire history of the country, and doesn't leave much room for cycles. I can't think of any period when inherited wealth and connections weren't extremely helpful in a political career. I'd say that "ossified authoritarian impulses built deep into [the] system" is a global issue, not a uniquely American one. A bet…

Naming six presidents to "span the entire history of the country" is oversimplifying to say the least. But to stay on topic, I believe it was Churchill that said democracy was the absolute worst form of government. Except for all the others.

People calling attention to inherited power aren't opposed to democracy, they want to try it for a change.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#468

Post by vintermann »

Smithalicious wrote: post #220
dav_Oz wrote: post #165

As an incidental remark: I find it remarkable that on the surface I now know of three G7 countries / liberal democracies where the PM/President is the (grand)son of a PM/President himself. Bush Sr - Bush Jr Pierre Trudeau - Justin Trudeau Nobusuke Kishi - (Shintaro Abe; FM) - Shinzo Abe [Honorary mention: France with "Le Pen" both father & daughter made it to the second round in the presidential elections (2002; 2017…

I don't think it's that weird. You wouldn't think much of a famous cook being the son of another famous cook, or likewise for a famous athlete, chess player, religious leader, etc. A child is influenced by their parents through both nature (genetics) and nurture (childrearing). Of course stuff like connections, name recognition, favors and backroom deals are a thing as well which are various levels of bad and prevent…

A politician isn't like a cook, or an athlete, or a flute player, or a pilot.

That claim was why the Athenians - rightly - called Socrates an idiot. One who didn't understand the point of protecting his interest through participating in politics.

A politician isn't supposed to administrate, he's supposed to represent people's interests - those who elected him in our system. He doesn't pilot the ship, he says where the ship should go in the first place. To the degree mere competence is required, he can hire someone to help him.

When family dynasties happen in politics, it's doubly a bad sign. First, there's no reason to think the son of a representative is accurately representative just because the father was. There's always the risk that he could be advancing private interests at the expense of the public he represents. And second: that the son is even there, is itself evidence that the father may have done just that, advancing his family interest over the public's.

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#469

Post by account42 »

yucky wrote: post #190
hsn915 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really any different than the US. Lots of information tends to be "widely known" online to those who care to dig, but the mainstream outlets stick to some narrative that is best described as "half truth".

Yes indeed. And if you really want to go down a rabbit hole, test it out on the subjects that find the likes of CNN & FOX agreeing in lockstep. More often than not it's to hide the truth than to report it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9rbHpA_6W4

Re: The Crime That Killed Shinzo Abe

#470

Post by Clubber »

dmurray wrote: post #122
pmoriarty wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is the same in every country, including the US where entire agencies will just stop talking to you if you piss them off" They only stop talking to you through official channels. There will always be leakers, disgruntled employees and others willing to talk to you anonymously or unofficially. Not to mention that you can talk to people and ask questions without announcing that you're a reporter. This used to be c…

Investigative journalism is at an all time low at the moment: it's simply too expensive. Rephrased press releases from corporations, government bodies and celebrities sell just as well and the PR firms take full advantage of that.

>Investigative journalism is at an all time low at the moment: it's simply too expensive.

I would just say it's not as profitable. Many independent journalists seem to do investigative journalism on the cheap. Wikileaks comes to mind. Saying it' too expensive, to me, denotes that they are unable to do it and be a sustainable enterprise, which is probably not accurate.

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