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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#511

Post by dylan604 »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

I get what you're saying, but...

Why are we letting FB off the hook? Why are we letting any of the platforms that harvest data off the hook? FB tweaked their algos to literally see if they could fuck with people's moods. They know the power they hold, and they constantly refine it to keep people's attention. At some point if FB promoted via algo something that riles up a group of people against another group of people to the point of violence, how is that any less bad? Especially, since that's what has happened?

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#512

Post by bshepard »

KMag wrote: post #483
bshepard wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invading a country is the opposite of self-determination, and justifying invasion based on an abstracted universalism was also used by the British empire.

Maybe I should have used the term "popular self-determinism". If the result is the government better represents the will of the populace at large, then popular self-determinism is improved, even if externally imposed.

This pattern goes back to Napoleon: the idea being that the democratic states created by the invading armies were more legitimate/self-determined than the existing monarchal states. However the idea didn't work: monarchal rule returned, and returned in a stronger and more powerful form. There's at least 200 years of experience to suggest that liberal/democratic imperialism is not viable as a strategy, and in fact, provokes more reaction.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#513

Post by baby »

mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

I feel like you’ve probably never used tiktok

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#514

Post by baby »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

> China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple.

And people wonder why we’re so divided

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#515

Post by auggierose »

nemothekid wrote: post #226
winternett wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Microsoft said "Come work for us every day for free, you may get brand deals!" Would anyone with talent, skills, and self respect jump to do it? Working for free at a large and quite profitable company? The problem is that because of how perception can be manipulated on social platforms based on that success illusion. It makes people think that the success comes just for creating simple content, and trumps one's a…

Even normal creators, on YouTube and TikTok, can get paid; it's called the Partner Program and Creator Fund respectfully the bar to clear it is relatively low. From there you can earn yourself a percentage of those millions; at roughly one dollar for everyone million views. It's not different than acting or professional sports; and it's far better than Facebook/Twitter model where they monetize your content with no p…

Given that there are 8 billion people, a video that is watched by everyone on this planet once will make $8000 then. Not sure any self-respecting actor or professional athlete would work for that kind of money. Djokovic had a much smaller audience this Sunday, and he made £2000000. I don't see him switching to TikTok.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#516

Post by echaozh »

bko wrote: post #263
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is that "government = bad" is typical American mindset. As another non-US, non-Chinese citizen, the fact that those megacorporations are independent from the government makes it worse, not better. At least governments respond to their people (especially in the case of democracies, much less so for authoritarian governments, but they still have to worry a minimum to avoid revolution). Corporations respond to…

When Facebook starts opening concentration camps, I'm likely to agree with you. > especially in the case of democracies, much less so for authoritarian governments, but they still have to worry a minimum to avoid revolution What do you think is more likely to still be relevant in 100 years from now, China or Facebook? I think a 'revolution' is more likely to affect Facebook than China

Hmm, you know corporations can run prisons, and they can fight in wars with mercenaries.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#517

Post by popcalc »

stevenhuang wrote: post #474
davesque wrote: post #247

I'd be in favor of banning TikTok just so I don't have to see those mind-annihilatingly stupid ads for it on YouTube anymore. And before people comment, I'm seeing ads because I like using the YouTube mobile app.

Checkout YouTube Vanced, it's shutdown but latest version still works well. Blocks YouTube ads.

If you're on iOS there are a few "open source" tweaked YouTube ipa's you can sideload. The one I use has adblocking, Premium-free background playing, SponsorBlock and actual mp4 downloading built in. If you have an Apple Developer account, you can sign it once a year. If not, there ways of automating the weekly resigning (look up altstore).

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#518

Post by raxxorraxor »

mkl95 wrote: post #212

TikTok is the most successful espionage operation of the 21st century so far, and it is based on a simple idea - people will happily give away their data and privacy if you consistently entertain them. In my opinion the application should be shut down as soon as possible, but there are many lessons to learn from it. And most of them have little to do with technology.

Problem is that everyone that shares their data will draw everyone in a form of co-dependence as their data will be used for governance and content decisions. Even if there is the at least one obvious difference of some users sharing data and some users not doing so.

I don't think you can close a platform like this again. It won't be the end of civilization either and perhaps another platform will at one day take its place. Arguably the privacy protection for western users are even better if the data doesn't leave China.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#519

Post by nivenkos »

zone411 wrote: post #395
lmm wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They definitely ignore and dismiss anything made in the EU. I don't think there's been an overwhelmingly popular app that's forced them to confront the idea of most US citizens using EU software yet.

Spotify.

Is on the NYSE though.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#520

Post by nindalf »

tonymet wrote: post #472
nindalf wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment follows a pattern common in other comments criticising TikTok - the person says “this content I saw isn’t very good. Why would anyone spend their time watching X?” > sexually suggestive thirst traps Not realising that only they (and people with similar tastes) are seeing X. And it says more about them than it does about TikTok. There’s plenty of room for thoughtful critique of TikTok and it’s current/pot…

somehow hackernews is full of saints who never check out soft porn on tiktok .

I’ll go one better than that. I’ve never installed TikTok, nor have I checked out someone else’s phone with TikTok one it. I couldn’t tell you what the UI looks like even if you put a gun to my head.

So no, we’re all not on there checking out soft porn.

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