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As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

economist.com

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Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#501

Post by throwawaymaths »

dirtyid wrote: post #484
noisy_boy wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has learned from US policies and has instead opted for more insidious and less "noisy" approaches like hard to repay soft-loans, mass buying of agricultural lands, starting vice businesses like casinos etc which also result in societal changes once the businesses started by Chinese start bringing a sizable influx of Chinese to work in them. See northwest Laos for a direct example (this is not an armchair commen…

>insideous Which is fairly tame in terms of securing geopolitical influence and enables more win-win arrangments. Especially with respect to Laos - a landlocked country with (to be blunt) zero long term development prospects. Laos per capital GDP growth has been on pace with booming Vietnam that has access to outsource manufacturing and maritime trade. Laos should be worse off than Cambodia that has 60% of current La…

While we're cherry picking examples, there's Sri Lanka, port of gwadar.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#502

Post by arroz »

lenkite wrote: post #451
Calvin02 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

"undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII." Only an American/NATO nation citizen can believe this utter nonsense. The only rules being followed were the ones the USA laid out with its military fist, crushing of the opposition and sponsored coups - all in their favour. Now that they finally have a serious competitor, the US is getting antsy. I am frankly speaking utterly glad…

Yeah great, a xenophobic, homophobic dictatorship will keep the USA in check!

First thing in agenda: invade Taiwan and cause a chip shortage in the world that will cause the greatest economic crisis you will ever see!

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#503

Post by throwawaymaths »

random314 wrote: post #328
konschubert wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

okay, go poll Ukrainians, Poles, Czechs, ...

And latin America and Afghanistan and Iraq and cuba and Vietnam and Palestine and Yemen

The us occupied Palestine? I better review my history.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#504

Post by arroz »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #248
pempem wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While most people on HN would agree that they would like more regulation of their data on FB and Google, these are largely still separate actors from the US government. You can even indicate that something like Cambridge Analytica is starting within a party, rather than the actual governing body. There is too much sharing, IMO, without a doubt. That being said, they are not near synonymous as TikTok is. Data regulati…

The thing is that "government = bad" is typical American mindset. As another non-US, non-Chinese citizen, the fact that those megacorporations are independent from the government makes it worse, not better. At least governments respond to their people (especially in the case of democracies, much less so for authoritarian governments, but they still have to worry a minimum to avoid revolution). Corporations respond to…

government is not always bad

However government knowing about your private stuff is

Homophobic governments shouldn’t know about gay peoples privacy

Christian governments shouldn’t know about women’s abortion

The government can help, it shouldn’t get in the way — which is very much what can do under a dictatorship

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#505

Post by hnov »

SMVS wrote: post #467
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

As an ex FAANG, nothing could be more true. TikTok is just continuing what Silicon Valley started, only they're better at it. Having seen what US tech companies have done with my data, I'd much rather it was in the hands of the Chinese.

What have they done with your data? Also have worked at a few FAANGs and from what I’ve seen (admittedly not working on social or B2C products) data is subject to rules and is generally used in aggregate only.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#506

Post by arroz »

Ozzie_osman wrote: post #373
bko wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a difference between a private company having my data and an adversarial government. The company has a clear motive, profit. They're lawful neutral. An adversarial government may be chaotic evil. I don't know why this isn't obvious. Wasn't everyone freaking out just a few years ago when Russian government was manipulating people with political groups on Facebook? And that's even with Facebook's earnes…

> Wasn't everyone freaking out just a few years ago when Russian government was manipulating people with political groups on Facebook? Yes, if by everyone you mean Americans, because their country was the target. There are many countries where media has been manipulated by the CIA, too.

If you think Russia has only meddled with American election, you are crazy

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#507

Post by arroz »

Miner49er wrote: post #277
bko wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a difference between a private company having my data and an adversarial government. The company has a clear motive, profit. They're lawful neutral. An adversarial government may be chaotic evil. I don't know why this isn't obvious. Wasn't everyone freaking out just a few years ago when Russian government was manipulating people with political groups on Facebook? And that's even with Facebook's earnes…

I'm the opposite. I would much rather have the CCP have my data then a US based company like FB. Unless I travel to China, what are the CCP going to do to the average American with their data? Whereas, in the US, the data could be used in the future to prosecute me for my political views or whatever with law changes.

The CCP can try to instigate chaos

Can try to instigate hate

Extremism

Cause democracy to fall

Make people feel hopeless in a possible future war, and just give up before trying so they can achieve their goals with ease

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#508

Post by tigerBL00D »

Calvin02 wrote: post #223
madeofpalk wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-US, non-Chinese citizen, is there something that makes TikTok espionage and Facebook not? Or is it just "china scary"?

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

Luckily this kind of unsubstantiated trash comment is rare on this forum. This is really not the place to vent your crazy political theories.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#509

Post by throwawaymaths »

lmm wrote: post #249
Calvin02 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. China and Russia are the biggest geopolitical threats to the world. It is surprisingly that simple. While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still largely law abiding. China, however, is not. Additionally, under Xi, it has become more authoritarian and more willing to undo the rules based order that has someone kept the world somewhat sane since WWII. I don’t know why anyone would be…

> While the US and the western governments have their issues, they are still a largely law abiding. Perhaps on an internal level. But for those of us in third countries what matters is how they act outside their borders, and the US is doing considerably more dronestriking of their political enemies than China is. (And even if you just look at domestic aspects, the relevant area is one of the exceptions. The NSA seems…

I'm all about criticizing the us for the drone striking it's doing (and how our media underreported it -- try getting stats of how many strikes Obama delivered, you can only get straight answers about individual regions, not a totalled number).

I think the reason the US gets a pass in the international political zeitgeist is that it's motives serve a greater peace. In the past imperial powers have largely used their militaries to enrich their own mercantilist motives; the us has been the opposite, it has used trade and greed to bolster a security stance that has been positive for a lot of people (if you look at trade figures the beneficiaries of us-led trade globalization has mostly been other countries, ironically, mostly china, Not to diminish the suffering of Latin American nations under us meddling, the pax Americana has directly brought peace to Europe which has basically been infighting since the beginning of time -- that's 450 million people that are not at each other's throats. Is that worth a Pinochet or two (Allende was no saint either), and bombing a few thousand innocent pashtuns, destabilizing iraq? I can't say, but at least I understand why people give the US a pass.

Re: As TikTok grows, so does suspicion

#510

Post by yorwba »

ectopod wrote: post #44
yorwba wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TikTok is technically not a Chinese company, so it wouldn't be affected by such a law. But I haven't read the law and don't know how accurate your summary of it is. Do you have a link?

https://harrisbricken.com/chinalawblog/chinas-new-cybersecur...

Not seeing anything about live access in there. Maybe you're referring to this?

> The written regulations that give the Ministry of Public Security the right to just “take it” are the Regulation on Internet Security Supervision and Inspection by Public Security Organs (公安机关互联网安全监督检查规定).

But the law in question http://www.gov.cn/gongbao/content/2018/content_5343745.htm doesn't actually grant public security organs the right to just "take it" as the blog post claims. Having the authority to request on-site network security audits or do penetration tests would certainly give spies ample opportunity to find ways to exfiltrate data, but that doesn't mean they're legally allowed to do so.

I guess not many people care whether Chinese intelligence agencies spy on TikTok users legally or extralegally, but I just wanted to know whether there really was such a law. Apparently not.

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